Help! Calling all Ex-Elders for advice on Appeal Commitee Situation

by flipper 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BluesBrother

  2 elders show up saying I'm disfellowshipped for circumstantial fornication

  Never heard that expression before. If I were serving on the committee i would have needed to have been certain that actual fornication had taken place, We were always counselled to be careful of circumstantial evidence. A lot may depend on the time of day that you were seen at her house. If it was "before breakfast" their dubby minds may conclude that you had been there all night. If it was mid morning, they are not entitled to make that assumption. If Mrs Flipper was "In the world" they may also have concluded that any relationship would be a sexual one, because they think that all worldly women are just begging for it.....

  We once had a serious allegation from an ex wife about a "brother" we just interviewed him and since he denied it, the matter rested without a committee being formed . Mind you, he was an up and coming M/S, perhaps that is the difference.

  Good luck mate!, plenty of good advice here, especially Willyloman and Snakes...
• 

  minimus

  Willy is right on. If you're just trying to buy time, tell them that your "contracted" work makes it impossible to meet until after july. I doubt the appeal com. will not side in with the elders. I think they just wanted to make sure that they were not in any legal trouble.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  The most likely thing here is that they realize you should not have been DF'ed but they don't want to
  undo the DF because they have you where they want you. You aren't showing them a humble
  attitude of doing whatever they say. You aren't going to meetings and they just want to get rid of
  you.

  Even though it's improper, they will DF you most likely unless you drive the ridiculous miles and
  say YES SIRS to anything they request of you. They might do the DF anyway after all that trouble.

  If you don't go, I am 99% certain that they will DF you for some charge like apostasy. If you go to the
  trouble of showing up, and lying by saying you will do whatever it is they ask of you, maybe 25% chance
  of not getting DF'ed. You might just cut your losses and tell them you cannot make it.
• 

  flipper

  Great counsel all my wonderful ex-elders. Thanks so much. Now here is another question for you guys. Please give me your advise on this too. I'm listening. If I delay these elders, tell them my work schedule won't allow me to go to a meeting until late July, and let's say they df me anyway. What do you think of some suggestions I've had on this thread if after I'm dfed to call the circuit overseer or district overseer and say I've been falsely accused and dfed, slandered by my ex-wife, it's given my non believing wife an incredibly bad example of the witness organization, and a travesty of justice has occured here. I don't know what this will accomplish but it will show my 80 year old witness parents I'm fighting the false allegations and I've been screwed over by the elders. Or I could just leave it alone and tell my parents it was all lies and I was railroaded out of the organization, and associate with them anyway? What's your thoughts folks? I'm all ears and heart! Peace , Mr. Flipper
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Any written or phoned correspondence after you are DF'ed will be a waste of your time and energy.
  They will either ignore it, or send a simple letter saying you need to come back to Jehovah without
  really addressing your concerns. They are not interested in one DF'ed person or those around him
  who won't be joining their ranks anyway.

  I've been falsely accused and dfed, slandered by my ex-wife, it's given my non believing wife an incredibly bad example of the witness organization, and a travesty of justice has occured here.

  You had a chance to show up, you had an appeal. It was dealt with, and you were not "repentant"
  of something you were guilty of, so what can they do for or against you? If you are really desirous
  of a good relationship with Jehovah, you would just go to the meetings and request reinstatement.
  That's all you will get out of them. MOVE ON.

  I don't know what this will accomplish but it will show my 80 year old witness parents I'm fighting the false allegations and I've been screwed over by the elders. Or I could just leave it alone and tell my parents it was all lies and I was railroaded out of the organization, and associate with them anyway?

  Tell the folks that you DID fight it and they did this to you anyway. Tell your parents it is all lies and that it is another
  example that elders are not appointed nor operate under the guidance of Holy Spirit. Tell them you were not guilty
  and they had no clear evidence of guilt, but did this anyway. Associate with them and hope for the best.
• 

  flipper

  Thanks on the way out, great advice. I really appreciate it! I will do that. Peace to you, Mr. Flipper
• 

  Fangorn

  I used to sit on appeal committees and should they uphold the DF you have a further right of appeal to the Organization (Service Desk) by letter within 7 days of their action. It is not unheard of for disfellowshipping actions to be overturned when no actionable offense actually took place. The "circumstantial" part of their statement refers to the allegation that you spent the night. That allegation is in large part trumped by your son's testimony. Personally I wouldn't delay, I would tell them I'd like to meet as soon as possible and continue to hammer home the point that you didn't do anything and that you have a witness to prove it. If you could come up with another witness that would be even better.
• 

  core

  I would write to the JC and say 1 - you expect immediate action by a JC to investuigate the charges of lying and slander against your accusers as no evidence exists
  
  2 - ask what reason the accusers had to "spy" on you other than to maliciously frame a case against you
  
  3 - advise the JC that as you have heard no credible evidence against you, and have provided clear character reference to substantiate your standing in the community and moral character you will seek damages personally against each and every member for defamation if they pursue a DF decision based on malicious fabrication - which they are colluding with if the continue to DF
  
  4- insist that copies of all correspondence and discussions concerning you from the JC to the CO/DO/ Service Desk be made available to you or your lawyers
  
  5 - write your ex and daughter stating your intention to Sue them for defamation and malicious falsehood causing you actual personal and financial loss
  
  6 - insist they espect youre constitutional rights to privacy and a quiet life with no further intrusion into your affairs
  
  7 - copy the letter to Borg HQ Service Dept and body of elders of former wife/daughter
  
  8 - copy letter to all those who have written shunning letters to you adding that you have every intention of "adding" them to your legal claims for damages for defamation
  
  9 - forget the lot of them and enjoy life - looks like finishing with ex was a great step - keep it up and get back to real life untroubled by these perverted control freaks
  
  10 - but write the letters anyway - they hate hassle and potential trouble
• 

  changeling

  willylomans advice seems to be the most sensible, I would follow it.
• 

  flipper

  Hello Everybody- Thanks so much for all your caring and wonderful advice!! Here is the latest news update as of 3:30 pacific time. I called the appeal commitee chairman, I asked him ,"What took so long to hear from you, it's been a over a month?" He said," We had to correspond with the society as they were doing research on this to let us know which way to go on it." I asked," Well, has a decision been made then? " He said, " Yes, it has. And the decision is in the positive. I think you'll like it." So I asked," I'm not getting disfellowshipped?" He said," No. You are not getting disfellowshipped." He said," We'd still like to meet with you to encourage you and build you up though." I asked," So that's all, just encourage me?" He said,"Yes that's right." I then proceeded to tell him what I had planned anyway that I'm busy with work for the next few weeks on a contract, I wouldn't be available to meet until July 22nd. He said that would be fine, he'll tell the other elders. So isn't this amazing you guys? The society told them to reverse the decision of the original committee!! Was it lack of evidence, you think? Or are they scared shitless I might sue for defamation of character and slander? I did send them one of those official letters that you've seen on these sites about them not slandering my character or I'll sue them. You know, a preformed 7 page letter which considers the dfed ones rights. So was it the letter? What do you guys think did it? Was it my son being there for me as a character witness? Jesus, I feel like a damn cat with nine lives.Either way, I still plan to fade quietly, just gonna leave the exwife and daughter well enough alone to stew in their own quagmire. Be a better person and let it go. Just want peace in my life. I told this chairman elder," Do you realize what a stress this has been on my life for 10 to 11 months? I'm flesh and blood, not superman, it's been extremely stressful emotionally and psychologically.Do you understand? " He said," I do . Yes I do understand." I guess he meant it, but I'll never trust any of those guys again.Will continue to fade gracefully and still talk with my parents. Peace to you all, Mr. Flipper Please write you thoughts, would like to hear from you. Thanks for all your help!!!