WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28..... (page 18)

Wayne L

Poppers - You paid $2500 for meditation? I paid $100 for a half hour session around the same time as you did yours. I can see why you became disallusioned!

As to latitude for those who have had bad experiences, I'm not buying it. This site besmirches all Witnesses everywhere because of a few bad ones. Every Witness I have ever met, including my childhood friend is not deserving of this treatment. Since they are basically non-confrontational, I do this for them on my own and without their approval. They are exception people who I would like to be like, but will never attain.

I have proven to myself that their major doctrines are right on, and validated over and over again by the latest scholarly research, but all I see in sites such as this is opinions and outrageous claims (I stop short of calling them lies), as you have seen in my exchanges with my online debaters.

If people on these sites have been mistreated by JWs,they should go after the individuals themselves. Leave other innocent Witnesses alone and unhindered to do what they do best.

poppers

From Wayne: "Poppers - You paid $2500 for meditation? I paid $100 for a half hour session around the same time as you did yours. I can see why you became disallusioned!"

No, I paid $35 when I was in college in 1973, which I thought was very reasonable then. Do you think that $2500 is reasonable today for a technique that takes a half hour to learn, something which can be learned from a book costing $20? People are being mislead about TM by their maintaining a cloak of mystery around it and with claims of getting a "meaningless" mantra unique to them. I became disillusioned by all of the other things I mentioned. By the way, why did you quit after only one month?

From Wayne: "As to latitude for those who have had bad experiences, I'm not buying it. This site besmirches all Witnesses everywhere because of a few bad ones. Every Witness I have ever met, including my childhood friend is not deserving of this treatment. Since they are basically non-confrontational, I do this for them on my own and without their approval. They are exception people who I would like to be like, but will never attain."

They why not become one and live by their standards? You can't "attain" what they have because of what? Could it be that your "weaknesses" will keep you from being viewed favorably by the congregation? What do you think would be the response by any failure of yours to match their standards, what recourse do you think you would have and how do you think they would react to your actions? If you don't know then you have no right to judge others who have lived through the real thing.

By the way, this site was created by JWs for those who had no place to voice concerns within their own organization. When supression of thought is imposed from without something has to give eventually, and this is the direct result. So in a very real way they are responsible for this site through their own failure to handle internally very real problems that flow from how they structure their organization and their demands for not questioning policy, procedure, and doctrine.

From Wayne: "I have proven to myself that their major doctrines are right on, and validated over and over again by the latest scholarly research, but all I see in sites such as this is opinions and outrageous claims (I stop short of calling them lies), as you have seen in my exchanges with my online debaters."

With such conviction of their version of "truth" it says a lot that you don't become one. What are you afraid of? You agree with their major doctrines; how about some of the minor things? Would your disagreement be met with a loving acceptance and tolerance? After becoming one see what happens after baptism when you have questions about the WT. Find out for yourself the limits of their tolerance for their own members weaknesses and failures. Maybe you would be thankful then that a site like this exists.

From Wayne: "If people on these sites have been mistreated by JWs,they should go after the individuals themselves. Leave other innocent Witnesses alone and unhindered to do what they do best.

Your opinion on people who have actually been mistreated matters little to these people. Walk a mile in their shoes, not the comfortable ones you wear while living on the outside and where the WT has no authority over you. They don't need you to defend them since they accept their own method of responding to attacks.

What do they say about your "defense"? Are they even aware of it? If not, why haven't you told them? If you were actually a member in good standing your defense of them on this site wouldn't be tolerated because this is considered an apostate site. You would find yourself disfellowshipped if you didn't tow the line on "bad association" and your deliberate and persistent consorting with apostates. You would then would be on the receiving end of the faithful and discreet slave's policies of intolerance for those who stray from their dictates.

Your proxy defense of them is clouded by what you see in your friends, and for the most part there are mostly good people there. But it doesn't take into account the entire spectrum of WT policies which spawn disaffection among many people who have been harmed by those policies. Your insulation from those policies gives you the freedom that they can't exercise themselves, which they probably wish they had. But in their mind they have accepted the idea (been brainwashed) that attacks prove that they have "the truth", that they are persecuted. That's what they want, to have "proof" that they are right. In a twisted way attacks are doing them a favor because it further sets them apart, which is what they want. It's an interesting dynamic.

fjtoth

Wayne L,

Frank - You are really testing my patience.

Could it be your patience is being tested because the truth hurts?

The JWs doctrines do not teach murder or rape. These people were acting on there own.

But I thought you said JWs don't murder. When I show you that they do, you change your position. Now, instead of saying they don't murder, you say they are not TAUGHT to murder. Tsk! Tsk!

Frank

5go

Wayne L are you sure you are not a Jehovah's Witness I mean this is a huge investment for a guy who stated he has never been a Jehovah's Witnesses and only had a mere friend who believed it.

Also your style of arguing sounds to me like the Jehovah's Witness style of arguing. Just deny all charges of wrong doing, and restate the Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth, and the accusers are in league with satan ( evil ) ad nauseum.

fjtoth

Wayne,

After following a few of your links all you can offer is about a couple dozen murders and violent crimes spread over decades, committed by people not following Watchtower doctrine. The JWs doctrines do not teach murder or rape. These people were acting on there own. And one was not a JW at the time. He was a lunatic who thought he was Christ!

Your argument is the same as the reasoning of JWs: "Oh, we don't have murderers, rapists, pedophiles and other criminals in our midst. We have a clean organization because we disfellowship such people!" JWs seem unable to acknowledge that all those bad people were JWs "at the time" they committed their evil deeds! They were disfellowshiped after the fact, not before.

"One was not a JW at the time" is an admission on your part that the rest were JWs "at the time" they committed murder!

It doesn't explain what this refers to but I got the impression you were using this to pad your numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong. This # isn't about blood transfusions. When I find a scanner I will post pg 31 which has real figures - 1050 dead and 3850 infected with AIDS due to blood tranfusions. That was 1994. Project to 2007 and do the arithmetic.

Talk about "padding" numbers! It's true that, sadly, a few thousand died from blood transfusions, but MILLIONS did not! On the other hand, the MAJORITY of Jehovah's Witnesses who have rejected needed transfusions have died! If most people were like JWs in refusing blood, there would very likely be millions dying around the world every year! In other words, blood transfusions, mainly in the past, were responsible for the deaths of a few thousand, but THEN and TODAY they have saved and are saving the lives of MILLIONS!

Frank

Paralipomenon

No one is suggesting which path is the right path.

I think that's the point. We spent so much time telling others we had the right path, then found out our mistake. What makes us better qualified now?

fjtoth

Wayne L

Frank - I like JW reasoning and logic. That is why they put the outrages distortions of the Catholic Church out of their teachings. The Trinity, Christmas, Easter, Hell, Immortal soul, and finally teach the truth about these. I think their teachings about tranfusions and the 144,000 are ridiculous, but it's their doctrine. You are not fighting it from the bible because it can't be done, so you resort to fabrication and inflammatory headers and silly cartoons. The 5 children featured in Awake May 22/94 were scrutinized by judges and panels and found to be capable of making their own decision, and that they were NOT COERCED in any way. And you, in your infinite wisdom, call it "murder".

All you have left to continue your bashing with is exaggerated stories about mythological ogres in Brooklyn, who you claim to have proof enough to scare them from suing, but you alo can't produce in these posts. If you had proof, the New York Times would probably pay a king's ransom for it. You also have been using 1000s of this and 1000s of that long before I knew this site existed. I had a lengthy running debate with MacGregor years ago about their gross errors and outright lies, to no avail. I'm tired. I've been there and I'm back, as the Tony Randall song goes.

You were on this mission a long time and now that I've cornered you and called you on your exaggerations, will you withdraw them, or would that take the pleasure out of life?

And regarding a statement made earlier, have I read every newspaper?, I say this - that if there were a breaking story about Witnesses anywhere in the world, the Toronto Star would have it. It's funny that you know things that reporters don't. Wayne

fjtoth

Wayne,

You want Bible, eh? Well, here's the JW Bible as they understand it:

Frank

WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

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