Mommie D and others beliefs on creation?

by cindy 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Cindy,

    I beleive that God Created all that is, and that He did so with Love, and with a plan. Whether he did it as outlined in the bible, or took 15 billion years or more to get the universe where it is today I don't know. Can you see God trying to explain scientifically, the creation of the universe 4000 years ago? No, I think God used the common mythology to explain what he did. I don't deny that God could have done it the way the bible outlines, but what is the point of the creation account? Is it to explain scientifically exactly HOW it was done, or was it to explain that GOD CREATED all that is?

    The Jesus we see in Scripture is seen through the eyes of faith.

    YERUSALYIM
    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

  • mommy
    mommy

    Thomas,
    YIKES!

    >>>I cover you with the blood of my lord Jesus Christ that you may not work,<<<

    I am sorry you are free to preach but don't splatter any of that blood on me. I have read of satanic rituals and they splatter blood too don't they?

    BTW where is the pic you said you would post? Are you having trouble finding a website to host it?
    wendy

    Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    I'm secretly in Love with Mommy and Xena, SHHHH! don't tell anyone.

    YERUSALYIM
    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

  • JanH
    JanH

    cindy,

    From most of the topics and replies I have come to believe that most everyone here still believes in God and Jesus and The Bible.

    We haven't done a poll, but I doubt that to be the case.

    Recently on a thread I've been on I've discovered many do not. I want to know what Mommie Dark and others believe on the subject of creation and Jesus. Mommie Dark believes that The Bible is a book of old tribal superstitions, anyone else?

    That is an accurate description of fact.

    How do you explain the big bang theory?

    What about it? As you demonstrate later, you don't even have rudimentary knowledge about Big Bang cosmology. Contrary to what you seem to think, Big Bang consmology is incompatible with a Biblical God.

    You could explain it to me all day long, but I still could not understand how order can come from total disorder. The big bang theory only reinforces my belief in God.

    You have just told us why: because you don't understand it, and are either incapable of so doing (which I doubt), or unwilling to do so.

    How can a big explosion out in space create life?

    The Big Bang was not a big explosion in space. That is an incredibly ignorant remark. It was the creation of the universe, including space AND time.

    Naturally, if time did not exist before the Big Bang, then neither was there any such thing as "before the big bang".

    Or, how about Jesus, how do you explain him. Who was he and why is he so important to so many people?
    What is there to explain? We don't know anything really about Jesus, if he even existed at all. The sources about early belief in Jesus originate with Paul, who seemed totally ignorant about any historical Jesus. He preached a spirit, not really a man.
    How do you explain the Old Testament foretelling him before he was ever born. The Old Testament told of his birth, death, and resurrection.
    It did? Can you be bothered to show me where? The gospel writers did wholesale forgery of events to coem up with mostly invented "prophecies" that Jesus allegedly fulfilled. And the gospels themselves can't even agree about the basic details about Jesus' birth, or when it was.
    Some of these things are totally factual, how do you explain them away?
    Like what? Nothing to "explain away". These are superstitious myths written long after the events allegedly took place. I recommend you look more carefully into the facts before repeating blindly what fundie preachers have told you. The reference to tacitus seems to be blind retelling from your part, since you have no idea when he lived. He merely repeated what he knew Christian preachers told, and neither him nor they had any independent confirmation of the events.

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Cindy,

    I just want to say "I admire your SPUNK".

    I would like also to say:How we creatures of only afew thousand years of recorded history, how can speak like we already know the meaning of life and all existance???

    I feel a genuine Christian should know his limits of knowledge, and speak so.

    Athiest that are true believer's feel they know for sure and that is so Black and White in thought.

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    The Big KA-BOOM!!!!

    In the very beginning, there was a void, a curious form of vacuum, a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound. Yet the laws of nature were in place and this curious vacuum held potential. A story logically begins at the beginning, but this story is about the universe and unfortunately there are no data for the very beginnings--none, zero. We don't know anything about the universe until it reaches the mature age of a billion of a trillionth of a second. That is, some very short time after creation in the big bang. When you read or hear anything about the birth of the universe, someone is making it up--we are in the realm of philosophy. Only God knows what happened at the very beginning. -Leon Lederman The God Particle

    Big Bang theory has been used to justify the exsistance of God many times.

    Albert Einstein's reaction to the consequences of his own general theory of relativity appear to acknowledge the threat of an encounter with God. Through the equations of general relativity, we can trace the origin of the universe backward in time to some sort of a beginning. However, before publishing his cosmological inferences, Einstein introduced a cosmological constant, a "fudge factor," to yield a static model for the universe. Einstein later considered this to be the greatest blunder of his scientific career.

    Einstein ultimately gave grudging acceptance to what he called "the necessity for a beginning" and eventually to "the presence of a superior reasoning power." But he never did accept the reality of a personal God.

    Why such resistance to the idea of a definite beginning of the universe? It goes right back to that first argument, the cosmological argument: (a) Everything that begins to exist must have a cause; (b) If the universe began to exist, then (c) the universe must have a cause. You can see the direction in which this argument is flowing--a direction of discomfort to some physicists.- Dr. Henry "Fritz" Schaefer III Professor of Chemistry and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia.

    It's a common misconception that Einstein beleived in God or that his 'fudge factor' was God.

    Stephen Hawking has been cited often in support of the exsistance of God. But there's reason to beleive Stephen Hawking for example, is biased in his book A Brief History of Time Which talks about God quite a bit. His wife, Jane Hawking is a Christian. She made the statement in 1986, "Without my faith in God, I wouldn't have been able to live in this situation;" namely, the deteriorating health of her husband. "I would not have been able to marry Stephen in the first place because I wouldn't have had the optimism to carry me through and I wouldn't have been able to carry on with it."

    Two of his best friends became feverent Fundamentalists for Billy Graham.

    Some believe that evidence for the big bang is evidence for the existence of god. Who else, they ask, could have caused such a thing?

    Here we go......

    The evidence is in. There is now little doubt that our universe was brought into existence by a "big bang" that occurred some 15 billion years ago. The existence of such a creation event explains a number of phenomena including the expansion of the universe, the existence of the cosmic background radiation, and the relative proportions of various sorts of matter.
    Dr. Theodore Schick Jr.

    So there you have it, it is pretty universally accepted. The question remains, is it proof of God?

    Frederick Burnham, a science-historian said, "These findings, now available, make the idea that God created the universe a more respectable hypothesis today than at any time in the last 100 years."

    At a press conference reporting the findings of the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite George Smoot said: "If you're religious, it's like looking at the face of god." Why? Because something must have caused the big bang, and who else but god could have done such a thing?"

    Is that true?

    The traditional first-cause argument rests on the assumption that everything has a cause. Noodles have a cause. Penguins have a cause. Even Fredhall has a cause. Since nothing can cause itself, and since the string of causes can't be infinitely long, there must be a first cause, namely, god.

    Here we go, I wil shoot this argument down with the great shoulder-mounted missle launcher of logic:

    1. Everything is caused by something other than itself, even Penguins.
    2. Therefore the universe was caused by something other than itself.
    3. The string of causes cannot be infinitely long.
    4. If the string of causes cannot be infinitely long, there must be a first cause.
    5. Therefore, there must be a first cause, namely god.

    Most of you can see where this is heading.

    This argument is self-refuting. If everything has a cause other than itself, then god must have a cause other than himself. But if god has a cause other than himself, he cannot be the first cause. So if the first premise is true, the conclusion must be false. POOF! Like Douglas Admas said (Thor rest his soul):

    This passage is talking about the fictional Babel Fish, a fish that squirms into your ear and translates all language for you into your native tongue.

    Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence than anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of thenon-existence of God. `The argument goes something like this: ``I refuse to prove that I exist,'' says God, ``for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'' ``But,'' says Man, ``The Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'' ``Oh dear,'' says God, ``I hadn't thought of that,'' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. ``Oh, that was easy,'' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

    Logic doesn't demand a first cause anymore than it demands a first number.

    A universe created by an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good being should be perfect. It si close to perfect, having FredHalls and Penguins in it and of course me. But the universe as we know it seems flawed. It certainly doesn't seem particularly hospitable to humans. Clarence Darrow explains:

    Even a human being of very limited capacity could think of countless ways in which the earth could be improved as the home of man, and from the earliest time the race has been using all sorts of efforts and resources to make it more suitable for its abode. Admitting that the earth is a fit place for life, and certainly every place in the universe where life exists is fitted for life, then what sort of life was this planet designed to support? There are some millions of different species of animals on this earth, and one-half of these are insects. In numbers, and perhaps in other ways, man is in a great minority. If the land of the earth was made for life, it seems as if it was intended for insect life, which can exist almost anywhere. If no other available place can be found they can live by the million on man, and inside of him. They generally succeed in destroying his life, and, if they have a chance, wind up by eating his body

    If you use the argument that the earth was created for us, you will have some trouble proving this. Every place on Earth is subject to natural disasters, and there are many places where humans cannot live, like within 30 feet of my laundry pile. Insects, on the other hand, seem to thrive most everywhere.

    When biologist G. B. S. Haldane was asked what his study of living things revealed about god, he said, "An inordinate fondness for beetles." If the Earth was created for us (as many christians beleive), it certainly leaves something to be desired.

    Ok, so let's ammend the first string of arguments for God and re-word it like this:
    The big bang argument for the existence of god is supposed to succeed where the traditional first-cause argument fails. Let's see if it does. Ross's version of the argument goes like this:

    6. Everything that had a beginning in time has a cause.
    7. The universe had a beginning in time.
    8. Therefore the universe had a cause.
    9. The only thing that could have caused the universe is god, because he is not bound by time.
    10. Therefore, god exists.

    This is a little trickier because it is not self-defeating like the first one.

    Well, for starters number 7 conflicts with relativity theory because the general theory of relativity claims that there was no time before there was a universe. Time and the universe are coterminous (word of the day on my word of the day calender) -they came into existence together. This is a finding of Einstein.

    Things can happen without a cause. Take sub-atomic particles, please. (bbig laugh from audience) Quantum Theory states that

    quantum electrodynamics reveals that an electron, positron, and photon occasionally emerge spontaneously in a perfect vacuum. When this happens, the three particles exist for a brief time, and then annihilate each other, leaving no trace behind.

    So maybe Big Bangs can just spontaniously happen. Or maybe this big bang is the result of a previous universe. Maybe the Universe has been big bangin and big crunchin for a gazillion billion years and in its 300 trillionth time it finally succeeded in creating self-aware life and penguins.

    It has long been known that if the amount of matter in the universe is great enough, then the universe will someday stop expanding and start contracting. Eventually, all the matter in the universe will be drawn back to a single point in what has come to be known as "the big crunch." Since matter supposedly cannot be crushed out of existence, the contraction cannot go on indefinitely. At some point the compressed matter may rebound in another big bang. If so, the big bang would have been caused by a prior state of the universe rather than some external agency.

    We can't rule out the possibility that a natural explanation will be found, no matter how incredible the event. ( A squirrel may walk up to you one day and suddenly spill the nuts so to speak and tell you everything) When faced with an inexplicable event, like a talking squirrel, it is always more rational to look for a natural cause than to attribute it to something supernatural. Appealing to the supernatural does not increase our understanding. It simply masks the fact that we do not yet understand.

    All in all, we need to remember human being's presense on Earth is a sliver on top of a 300 mile deep history of previous life forms that lived for millions of years, then went extinct and gave room for newer life.

    I personally think humans as a species think way too much of themselves.

    -Dan

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    That's MRS. Mommie Dark TommyPoo. YOu really DON'T pay attention to the details at all, do you?

    And no, I really don't like you at all. I tnink you are the worst sort of opportunist, evidenced by your seeking to prey on the depressed and the confused in your trolling for Godbait.

    My granny taught me to step on pissants before they stink up the yard. Just tryin to keep the tradition alive...

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    bb,
    that's a mighty big red herring your dragging across the trail:

    We can't rule out the possibility that a natural explanation will be found, no matter how incredible the event. ( A squirrel may walk up to you one day and suddenly spill the nuts so to speak and tell you everything) When faced with an inexplicable event, like a talking squirrel, it is always more rational to look for a natural cause than to attribute it to something supernatural. Appealing to the supernatural does not increase our understanding. It simply masks the fact that we do not yet understand.

    If a squirrel came up to you and started talking what would be your natural reaction be?
    Would you automatically beleive everything he tells you?

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

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