Divorces...isn't that a "conditional" love?

by FreedomFrog 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    A thing which has no conditions for "being" doesn't exist....and that includes love.

    What would you think of graduating medical students without any conditions for passing exams?

    What would you think of a justice system or court of law that acquitted criminals regardless of the conditions of their crimes?

    Would you eat a meal regardless of the conditions under which it was prepared hygiene-wise?

    Love is not an inherited instinct so much as it is a valuation. For somebody or something to have value (to you) it must be decided under what circumstances (conditions) good/better/best behavior and worse/worst represent the totality of that someone/something.

    A mother who doesn't correct or adjust bad/awful behavior is not enhancing the quality of a child's character or personality EVEN IF the mother finds them altogether lovable!

    The only "condition" under which love should PROPERLY exist is when the object of that love DESERVINGLY merits that valuation. Otherwise, we are describing an INJUSTICE.

    Incidentally, this is what makes bollocks out of the description of God's "grace"!

    If we are wretched sinners deserving of contempt and death--and yet--we are "saved" without any merit of our own---the standard of Justice becomes arbitrary, capricious, whimsical and deuces wild nonsense on the part of a God without standards.

  • bluebell
    bluebell

    I just want to say that although you can get hurt in a relationship, I personally think that it is still better to open yourself up (to the right person) than to walk around a closed up shell.

    I have never had a marriage split up or tried to look after kids with hardly any money and I can understand (but not fully of course) how that must hurt.

    I was abused by my father, I had decided that I would never trust people after the way I was treated and how lightly my situation seemed to be taken. I kept all my emotions locked up, and to lock away the bad emotions, you have to lock all the good ones too.

    But I met someone who stuck around no matter how obnoxious I was to them. In the end I started opening up again and all the bad emotions had to come out first before the good ones could, he had to spend many nights just holding me while I cried. In the end I learned to trust again and more importantly I learned to love, like and trust myself, maybe one day you will too.

    I used to be so depressed most of the time and just have manic days where I wound myself up into a frenzy so that I could interact with people and seem happy. I still have bad days and weeks where I feel down but not as down as I used to, the happy days are getting more and more.

  • kerj2leev
    kerj2leev
    I wonder if she's going to stop going to movies because she might see a really good one and then it will end. Or eating a really great steak because when she takes the last bite she might never get another one that good. Maybe she won't ever again go to visit a beautiful scenic area because someday somebody might build a freeway through it...

    To minimize the complexities of love into going to a movie, or eating is quite an interesting concept! A bit too simplistic for me, but I guess if you like eating and movies it could work!!

  • 600murray
    600murray

    Even God will only love you if you do what he says...if you don't, he kills you.

    Condtional Love!

  • Brigid
    Brigid

    I am not sure that "unconditional" love exists in the sense that you're putting it forth. Daystar and I have discussed this. I think we come close. But we all have "expectations". We all have fear of loss. You can love someone and choose not to be with them because either you or they have evolved into a "different" entity than the one you fell in love with in the first place (like he might evolve into a couch sitting, beer drinking unemployed schlub LOL!). It does not decrease the love you feel for the person they are Now.

    It is difficult to articulate. There is a difference between unconditional love; that connection you feel to another being at the soul level: That never changes, whether you are together or not. and good old committed marriage. No matter where your/their personal evolution takes you. You simply love them. You cannot help it--it flows from you freely once the well spring has been tapped. Does that require togetherness? Does it require "rules"? It is so beyond that which is perceived "good/evil". It is a state of being. You can choose to be with that person and that makes it all the more powerful but the love does not require it-it just is.

    Now, most relationships (and up to this point in my life it has been all I've ever believed in) are business relationships with the added fluff of "romance". BTW, romantic love is a rather new invention to the human populace (and wildly popular here in the west) to further our pro-creative activities and perpetuate the human race with rules/boundaries that have served us well. The family unit is the most basic form of human government and it usually mirrors and ergo furthers the society it "lives" in. So, committment and behavior modification and rules and making people stick to it are good in those situations and you can have some semblence of romantic love on top of that but make no mistake, it is ultimately a business. Not bad, imo. I have cared deeply for and been a fantastic wife (one good thing I got from the witnesses was training on being a good wife) to a man that I did not necessarily love but we made good partners. We were friends/partners. And actually still run a business together; that of raising our son to maturity and an actual business. He and I both knew when we decided to get married (when I got pregnant) that it would very much be a business relationship. But there was romance and there was committment (still is in the raising of our son). Problem was, he wanted more. I wanted more ultimately. He developed emotional intimacies (that I did not care about) as did I, with other people. We talked about staying together (though we had lived in separate bedrooms for sometime) for the business end of it all--we have always been good partners. But decided not to. I actually think we would have stuck it out to our deaths do us parts except for the flaw of him treating my daughter like a piece of crap.

    So, there is a difference between unconditional love (which is very rare in a non parental relationship) and good old committed marriages. One just is, the other serves a very utilitarian but not altogether unpleasant purpose.

    You may find this book of interest: Getting the Love You Want http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Couples/dp/0805068953

    I found some use as I slept in my bedroom and he slept in his and we were trying to keep things together. It helped me delve into all my unconscious drives and heal many of those. I only diverged when Hendrix speaks of finding what you're looking for in the other. I personally believe that the individual holds it within and the key is finding it within. But a good read nonetheless.

    I hope you find what you need within and without....

    Love and Light,

    ~Brigid

  • Tigerman
    Tigerman

    It seems to me that the respondents to this question have lived/ grown up in a very " conditional " atmosphere where every thought, move, action, plan, was controlled by an organization ( WTBTS ?)that demanded "conditions ."

    And, because of that particular background, I don't think anyone who has posted knows the meaning of " unconditional love ."

    My less than " 2-cents" worth.

  • AudeSapere
    AudeSapere

    Oh Gina!

    You sound so sad today and it's breaking my heart...!! I'm sorry you are in pain and you are clearly feeling the pain of your children.

    You really can't trust anyone but yourself. That is one lesson I've learn in life.

    I don't think this is the lesson that needed to be learned. I think the lesson is: We are each responsible for our own lives and ultimately our own happiness. We should not depend solely on someone else to create our lives.

    People leave our lives due to so many circumstances. Sometimes it's planned and sometimes it's not. In the end, it's up to each of us individually to make our lives worth living.

    Change is difficult - but it's also a part of life.

    Life is changing, fleeting, and fluid. Some people are in our lives for only a short while but have wonderful impact. You may need to be guarded right now while you focus on school and kids but one day soon I think you will find a balance in what to expect of a man who you may want a relationship with. Maybe you will wait until the kids are older. Maybe not.

    This one thing I truly believe: It's better to not have every man that you may be interested in come by to meet your kids. Know the guy for at least 3months (maybe even 6months) before introducing them. I really think that a parade of possible step-dads or step-moms is horrible for kids to experience. THAT causes them to shut down and not be trusting of others or able to properly bond.

    Of course, that doesn't sound like something that your interested in pursuing at this time anyway.

    Is your financial situation that strained?? Does the state have a program that you can tap into to at least keep simple food in your pantry?? I have a ton of food at my house that I'd be more than happy to share with you. Seriously.

    Don't give up on happiness and fun in life. Don't give up on all people. Just keep focused on what *you* need to do to make your and your children's life better. It will get better. Hopefully sooner than later.

    *Hugs*

    -Denise.

  • lola28
    lola28
    I'm talking about things that use to be loved are now not because the other person's likes are changing.

    I think it's selfish to expect someone to love you or rather to stay with you when that's not what he wants anymore. I'm a kid that grew up in a broken home, I have not talked to my dad in years and and I know how hard it is for a mother to take care of her kids all on her own. But you are not are you own, your kids get to see their father and it seems to me that he is doing the best he can.

    Then what's the point in falling in love or developing close friendships with anyone if all of that could be lost?

    What is the point of loving your children if they could go outside and be hit by a bus or get sick and die? You keep trying to close yourself off because of what might happen and that's a sad way to live life. Be a big girl and realize that most things never go as planned, people will never live up to your expectations of them and a lot of the time they will break your heart and they will hurt you, but sometimes they will also surprise you by loving you even when you don't think you are worthy of it.

    Lola

  • anewme
    anewme

    Love is like a living thing that must be nurtured.
    Love can get stressed.
    Love can get frustrated and dissappointed.
    Love can feel jealous.
    Love can feel betrayed.
    Love can die.

    Think of love not as a strong oak tree, but as a rose that needs tending.

  • FreedomFrog
    FreedomFrog

    Just to make sure you guys all understand...this was not a "bashing" ex up. This was just me feeling the pressures of life and not knowing where to turn. Ok, I may not be able to articulate my words well at this point because of the emotional low but I still feel the feelings.

    Right now, I just need a hug and a nice cry on someones shoulder...but lets see who's around I can depend on?? My kids? Nope, cause that's not ethical...my parents? nope because they have nothing to do with me? my non-JW friends? They would, but they live a distance from me...SO I have to let it out some how and I don't want to lay this all on them and exhaust them. For the most part I keep this all in and I know that's not healthy.

    In a few days I can suck it up and be back to my strong self...just right now I am giving myself permission to be "weak" for a moment just so I won't go nuts.

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