As Time Goes By - Do they all begin to look alike to you?

by AK - Jeff 36 Replies latest jw experiences

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  blondie

  Why turn over responsibility to just another group to tell you what to believe. Nothing replaces doing the necessary personal research to come up with the information that you feel would identify true spiritual values. Then go shopping. I think you will find that none meet all your requirements. Will you settle though and if so, on what points, or will you decide that you can go it alone or with a small group of like-minded persons. Ray Franz told me about a book by Charles Davis, ex-Catholic theologian, "A Question of Conscience," and how as groups grow they lose objectivity.

  http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?&isbn=0340037490&nsa=1

  Related article:

  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_n17_v33/ai_19206227
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  AK - Jeff

  Ray Franz told me about a book by Charles Davis, ex-Catholic theologian, "A Question of Conscience," and how as groups grow they lose objectivity.

  Yes indeed. This passage from another book that Ray mentions fit's the matter of discussion here to some extent - one of my favorite quotes since reading CoC;

  The primary goal of all institutions and subcultures is self-preservation. Preserving the faith is central to God’s plan for human history; preserving particular religious institutions is not. Do not expect those that run the institutions to be sensitive to the difference…

  Nonetheless, questioning the institution is synonymous, for many with attacking God - something not to be tolerated….. Actually they are protecting themselves, their view of the world, and their sense of security. The religious institution has given them meaning, a sense of purpose… Anyone perceived as a threat to these things is a threat indeed. This threat is often met, or suppressed even before it arises, with power… Institutions express their power most clearly by enunciating, interpreting, and enforcing the rules of the subculture.

  Daniel Taylor - The Myth of Certainty

  Jeff
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  IP_SEC

  You define religion in a rather narrow way Cog.

  A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

  There needn't be any temple-building or formal creed for a cause to be religious.

  I am an athiest myself, but it is not my substitute religion. My god is my belly :D.

  A fundie atheist is just as dogmatic and religious as a xian fundie. The only real difference? The athiest fundie gets offended at the proper use of the word "religion" to define his beliefs.
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  AK - Jeff

  A fundie atheist is just as dogmatic and religious as a xian fundie. The only real difference? The athiest fundie gets offended at the proper use of the word "religion" to define his beliefs.
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  cognizant dissident

  I wasn't offended at the term "atheist fundy". I just didn't see it as "accurate". But yes, I can see your point. Anyone can turn any belief or any non-belief into some sort of "righteous cause" that they pursue with zealous devotion and it becomes their religious way. Hey some people considerer shopping and consumerism as one of the fundamental "rights" of life! Or sports! They pursue them with religious zeal and devotion! I'm thinking of my mother here (shopping) and my husband (sports). Humans do seem to have the ability to become unbalanced and religiously devoted to just about anything to the point where it becomes no longer beneficial and even harmful.

  I am an atheist but I'm not dogmatic about it being "right" or "true" and I don't see any particular beliefs as being fundamental to my present non-belief in God. I am open to new evidence as it presents itself. I still believe in showing caring and respect to others no matter what beliefs they hold. I will grant you that there are atheists who are dogmatic and disrespectful of believers in God. I acknowledge that there are also believers of God who are respectful and open to new evidence and are humble enough to adjust their way of belief if the need arises. Most of the people on this board probably fall into that category as we had to be somewhat "open" and "humble" to change our beliefs in the JW's and admit we were wrong.

  Some people turn being an "ex-JW" into a righteous religious cause and devote huge amounts of their time to being "against" the organization. Perhaps the reason that I see religions as all being fudamentally the same, is that the majority of people are all the same underneath. They all have the capacity to turn literally anything into a "religion" and it is the underlying assumption that "their beliefs" are absolutely the correct ones and that there is no possible way they could be wrong. If they have to disrespect or harm others or deny reality to maintain their beliefs and their "rightness" then so be it. All the world's religions are just slightly different manifestations of this underlying belief that most people tend to hold in common.

  I know there are individual exceptions, but they are often tiny voices lost admist the clanging symbols of institutionalized beliefs.

  Cog
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  AK - Jeff

  I know there are individual exceptions, but they are often tiny voices lost admist the clanging symbols of institutionalized beliefs.

  Cog

  I dare say we know of our share here on JWD. But personally, I can't imagine most going back to religion after leaving Jw's, at least not in the same fashion as others might change churches. But those who do have my deepest respect and love. Still, I may be religious without religion at times.

  If, to use an axiom, I had developed a dreaded disease playing with the prostitutes, I would not be guilty of that again post-cure, though I may still be having sex. It is indeed religious institutions that I avoid. I might talk to a prostitute from time to time - but that is it.

  Jeff
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  LisaRose

  Yeah, they all look alike to me. I still believe in God, I feel I have a spiritual side and I have deloped my own sense of morality. I don't need to go to a building to express that.

  This sums it up for me.

  "The kiss of the sun for pardon, the song of the birds for mirth, one is nearer God's heart in a garden than anywhere else on earth"