by WeAreDying-Ophelia 70 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Ophelia,
It's true that many who post on this site have very negative feelings about the WTBTS. However, there is also a LOT of knowledge and wisdom among the folks who post here, so you will be able to get information about many things here, with the research to back it up. As for why the public talks are now 30 minutes, I have been out too long to have any idea. As far as I remember, the public never attended these talks anyway. Glad to meet you!
I just don't understand all these changes.
This religion is constantly changing things. The simple reason is because they can't seem to get anything right. The public talk going from 45 minutes down to 30 minutes is the least of their problems right now.
Anyone here still in and wondering like I am? If so, have you heard anymore about this from the elders in your hall? Several of us are feeling that the Society is out of control.
Your feeling is 100% correct. Those at the top have no one to answer to and they make up new rules and doctrines at the slightest whim. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It can be devastating to realize that this might not be 'the Truth' after all. Most, if not all of us thought the same way at one time. This is a good board for those on the way out. I hope you stick around.
Ophelia,
I'm still nominally "in," going to most of the meetings for my wife's sake, though I've stopped commenting, going out in service, and giving parts on the TMS. I was raised as a Witness and was a pioneer and a ministerial servant before the changes you refer to disillusioned me and got me thinking about my beliefs and concerns.
What changes?
The 1995 change in what "Generation" meant, effectively removing any kind of definitive timetable for the "end." It just seemed a little too convenient--they held onto the teaching of "the generation that would by no means pass away" and pushed it and pushed it in the ministry, in the books, in the Watchtower, right up until the last possible moment they could, and then changed it because it obviously wasn't going to come true. I personally went door-to-door and did street witnessing, loudly and enthusiastically advertise, advertise, advertising that message to anyone who would listen, only to have them suddenly change it. And hardly anyone seemed to notice! They just nodded their heads at that Watchtower study, and I stared around in amazement.
The massive "simplification" effort, basically downsizing. When I was a kid in the 80's, we had food service at conventions, something I was always happy to take part in. We had hour-long public talks (shortly thereafter changed to 45 minutes and now 30 minutes.) We had a wonderful vision for the future. The Awake was published twice a month, the conventions were four days long with two dramas, the books were hardbound with faux gold-leaf lettering, the paper was high-quality. They would have photo-dramas in place of the public talk sometimes, you remember that?
And with all these simplifications, what happened back at headquarters? Growth. They bought more and more Brooklyn property and poured millions of dollars of contributions from poor Witness families all over the US into renovating opulent hotels and theaters. They made a massive upstate compound (the Educational Center). They laid off many lifetime Bethel servants and their wives just as they were moving into their middle years, people who had no skills and no retirement plan other than living at Bethel, and cast those folks out into the night. Something just didn't seem right to me about all of this. Why were we downsizing?
And then there was the lack of growth in the US, when I KNEW the Spanish-language halls were exploding. This could only mean that the older English-speaking halls were declining rapidly.
And the whole tone from Brooklyn took on a decidedly different tone--the focus now is on loyalty and obedience to the Society, not questioning what they say, not thinking for oneself (they actually SAY that now.) All the time while they were making decisions that seemed so questionable...
So you ask whether I've been wondering? I did, yes, for a long time. You ask whether any elders in my hall have said anything? They are asleep at the wheel, trudging on like they always have. You say your congregation is dying? Mine is a dead husk with the same several families, the mostly 50+ aged elders, the same row of white-haired ladies, and wave after wave of young people come up, look around, and leave the religion. There is no life, no spark, no social possibility, no friendliness. People go through the motions, clap when they're supposed to, sing unenthusiastically when they're asked to, chuckle quietly under their breath when a speaker makes a joke. The talks are the same old talks--look, the world is so bad, look, here is what to do to fix it. I can't remember the last time we had a congregation get-together. My family never gets invited to anyone's house for dinner--we are, as far as we know, the only ones who ever invite anyone over, and it's been a while for us now, too.
Gone are the guitar-strumming Kingdom Song sing-alongs of my youth. Gone are the Christian question-and-answer games we used to play at get-togethers. Gone are the potshares. Gone is the feeling that we were part of something dynamic and important. Gone is the enthusiasm for the ministry. Gone is the anticipation for each convention about what the new release would be.
You say you're dying? You say all you have is each other? You say you're not the only one? I would say that you're a perceptive lady, Ophelia. I wish you good fortune on your journey and hope that you find eventual happiness with your family and your friends intact.
None of them bother me and I can't possibly understand why anyone would be so concerned.
Rosalee, I know that you feel that you are thinking with your own brain, but your comments clearly show that your cognitive dissonance has such a tight grip on your reasoning ability, that you are no longer able to recognize the nagging doubts in your mind. I know they are there. ALL JW's have doubts.
I see that you are a very loyal person to the organization, so that means that you openly worship men.
Telling Ophelia that she should not be worried, and to not listen to her inner voice is doing a huge disservice to her.
I don't expect you, Rosalee to wake up, for that would take courage and listening to what your brain is telling you.
It's WRONG of you to tell someone else to NOT listen to their conscience.
The only thing that we ex-JW's will tell Ophelia to do is, to do her own factual research and come to her own conclusions without someone else telling her HOW to think and WHAT to think.
Rosalee, You can go on your merry way letting the organization ''mold your thinking''.
Please allow others the freedom to think for themselves.
Wondering is great! Do you know how many people never wonder about anything? My advice, if you want to stay a JW is: sit down and shut up. Don't wonder about anything except how you are going to meet your quota in the field ministry and attend more meetings. Stop reading the Bible so much and just read the WT. Never question anything that any elder or the Society says or does. That will only get you in trouble. Pray to Jehovah to get those wicked wonderings out of your heart. Stop thnking about it. Get a hobby, but don't enjoy it too much. Try scrapbooking maybe. Something it's impossible to get too passionate about. But most of all, don't miss a meeting and go out in service more. That's about the extent of knowledge that you need to be a good JW. You do not need to know the Bible very well, or JW history. Definitely don't start studying WT history. That will get you nowhere, or somewhere fast. you should feel very guilty for having questions. Perhaps you are toying with apostasy or imorality? Throw out any music you may have that is questionable, throw out anything you may have bought at a garage sale or any used clothing and the like. throw out any rated R movies you may have, no, wait, throw out your PG13 movies as well just to be safe. you are likely under attack from the demons. Pray to Jehovah to get those demons out of your head and house. have the elders come over and go through your stuff and try to find out how you are letting Satan into your life. Then, go out in service. Quit your job, drop out of school and pioneer. Learn to live on very little money so you don't have to work too much. Whatever you do, keep going out in service. Oh, and definitely don't log on to this website anymore. Evil people lurk here just waiting for some little lamb like yourself to gobble up! If you do all this, then maybe, you might be spared at Armageddon... maybe. Don't you feel comforted now?
Shaun, all you said was true, but I hope you did not scare Ophelia away.
Ophelia: I like eclipse's advice to listen to your gut. When you're gut tells you something is "off", it usually is.
changeling
Ophelia
Welcome to the forum. You are not the only one who has wondered about the new thirty minute talk arrangement.
What this may accomplish is to remove any experiences or local application that made a livelier, more interesting talk. It will become largely a manuscript. One may hear the same words over and over as the talk is given again and again.
Many are concerned, as are many that wonder about the new "members only" watchtower arrangement due in January. One for the public and one for the ones on the "inside" seems to many to be strange. Have your father and brother made any comments about that?
Under_Believer-
I'm 41, 2nd generation JW- You have just perfectly described my own experience!
Q
I just wanted to pop in and say welcome, Ophelia.
I think a simple answer as to why all the changes and why now, is that a few members of the Governing Body have died and been replaced. This has likely changed the balance of power, and the new Governing Body is trying out different ideas.
I suspect most of the changes are to save costs, and maybe tighten control a little bit. This 'new generation' reminds me a bit of Rehoboam, Solomon's son, and his callous response to the people's request to lighten their burden. 1 Kings 12:3-15.
Wow, have not been here in awhile. I think Ophelia got spooked. Hope she comes back, it was so innocent how she started a topic and revealed something pretty important to all of us you know?
Nikki
