Proof of God's existence

by Blackboo 96 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  nvrgnbk

  You need more cowbell!

  Why of course! That's it! More divine cowbell!
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  JCanon

  So JCanon, you are saying that god provides a sing for those who already believe and for people who do not he just makes them believe even less? I find it hard to call that love and justice. Also the bible says that he wants every body to be saved, it seems to me, the way you just explained it, that he does not want that many people to be saved.

  Actually, not really. The true context of your question resides in the practical nature of what has to occur in the early stages connected with the messiah. It's like the Jews and Abraham's promise. The messiah had to come through some line and in connection with some people. The whole world will benefit but they would not be involved with this on such a large scale. So the Jews and their religion and lithurgy and Law Code all were designed for the messiah to come through them. First Abraham's descendants. Then that was narrowed down to Isaac's descendants, and then Jacob's descendants, then the the tribe of Judah and then, of course, the line of David. See how that god pared down? Then once the messiah arrived, he first, recognized the Jews as the Covenant people first, his focus was just for the Jews and the Samaritans, those connected with who he was. That was a focus for 3-1/2 years after Christ's death. But then after that, it went to the gentiles and a new covenant was created. So likewise today, when God begins to active deal with mankind again, he first has to focus on the small unit, those directly connected with the Christ, like the tribe of Levi was set aside specifically just for the holy things. So that's what is happening now. Because of the nature of what is going on, those most directly involved with what's going on in the kingdom now, see and know about the angels and their work (they are materialized and disguised looking just like everybody else, so still invisible!). They see the Christ himself sometimes as I have seen him. They see holy spirit intervening for them with all the secret hiding and everything. So they are seeing these things now. The sign thus appears to them on what we call those "inside the banquet". The kingdom is like the wedding feast and a banquet. It's a private and special situation in a spiritual world or secrecy. But everybody cannot be a part of that, even though they are still eligible to be SAVED. So that's REALLY what you are asking. Are you excluded just because some people like me and the JIOR are on the inside and seeing a few of these miracles, etc. The answer is no! It's just that everybody doesn't need to be involved at this level. Furthermore, it's contraindicated since some people like Paul and John and others who have literally survived down to our day need to still be protected along with their records from the 1st century. So everybody can't be in on this or it can't be so obviously public at this point. Your scriptural confirmations here are in the parable of the prodigal son where the older brother class hears about the banquet (like you're hearing about these miracles with the JIOR) and wonders what is going on and then he is too angry and upset he's not having a banquet which they thinks he deserves more than his unfaithful younger brother now returned. So God comes OUT of the banquet to him, and reassures him: "What is mine is yours..." So he doesn't reject the older brother, but the older brother is not included in this early phase of what is going on. But he's AWARE of it. He "hears" the noise of the party, like you hearing me chatter about the sign and talking to God. But you can't get in. But that doesn't mean you're rejected. It just means it wasn't necessary for you in your situation to be in on this level. Sure you feel shut out, like the older brother, but then again, maybe you could have gotten in at some point but were not ready or open to it, etc. Your other scriptural reference is in the vision of the woman in Revelation who gives birth to the child at the time Satan is kicked out of heaven. She is clearly in her own place in the wilderness provided by God and away from the face of the Dragon. Satan and his organization cannot physically see her. He can't infiltrate her organization with spies. He tries to drown her with propaganda, like all kinds of pseudo-scientific proof of no Flood or how old the earth is and all that BS, but she ignores it, having confidence in Scripture. At any rate, what happens is Satan then goes and wages war with "the remaining ones of her seed."

  13 Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.

  15 And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.

  So you see, there are some Satan can see. These "remaining ones of her seed" are those who are part of the publicly visible part of God's organization, those associated with the "older brother" class, those faithful anointed ones associated with the JW organization who are not part of the secret socities that make up the woman's organization, which is whom I loose refer to as the "JIOR Group" (Jehovah is Our Righteousness Group). BUT... eventually, as we approach Armageddon more and more and more will become apparent and more will believe. At one point most will definitely believe, even those not believing now, and will want to get into the kingdom but by then the door will be closed. It will be too late. So basically, those who are WISE-VIRGIN MINDED are the ones who get in. They are already focussed, already believing but don't have enough light to understand everything. When that call comes that the messiah has arrived, which occurred in the fall of 1998 actually, then they get their lamps togehter and they enter into the JIOR. The foolish virgins, who were spiritually sleep want some of this oil but the wise virgins refuse to give it to them, they don't know if they will need it all or not. They send them off on their own to get oil from those that sell it. In other words, "Read the Bible for yourself!" The wise virgins do see everything eventually, but they arrive too late to get in. But in the end, of course, those of the "older brother class" and "remaining ones of her seed" class will be united after Armageddon along with many others who are not directly involved with management of the secret kingdom activities, which includes the secrecy of those who have survived down to us from the 1st century. BUT... in defense of who gets to see more and who doesn't. The Bible says "he who has more, MORE will be given." So the ones who already believe the Bible, don't question it, and ignore the Watchtower when it doesn't agree with the Bible, they have MORE already. They already believe. So when it's pointed out to them something like, "Hey, guess what? John and Paul are still alive from the first Century. See the Bible says so right here!" Then they believe it! They can believe it because they have that much confidence in the Scriptures as truth. Can YOU believe that? Do you have that much faith? Well even though they trust that is true because it's in the Bible and they understand it in God's overall plan, then one day, they actually get to see these people maybe. So THEY get the miracles. The ones who already believe, get the physical proof. But for those who don't believe, they get less. They get stumbling blocks. They get people like me that are totally unlike what they'd expect in the way of maybe an anointed Christian, so they believe even less, even though I show them pictures of the sign that appeared. So basically Jehovah's policy and point of view is that if you haven't believed the Bible already and what it says, you're not that spiritually in tune, then no matter what "magic tricks" I might do or he might perform you still won't believe that either, so he doesn't provide those things to people who haven't first accepted the Bible, but he does provide some of those extra-Biblical miraculous "perks" who already believe anyway. So some of the reason some people aren't seeing these things are because they have rejected the Bible somewhere along the way. They are like Jesus said, "It's a wicked generation that is looking for a sign." You know, they want to see some magic tricks to prove the Bible is true, because they can't accept the Bible face value. So God basically slaps them in the face, and does show miracles to those who already believe anyway. So those who appreciate the Bible, get the miracles. Those who don't are not given miracles to bolster the Bible's truth which they should have believed in the first place. EVENTUALLY, though, of course, Armageddon must come. The destruction of the Illuminati by the UN will occur and people will believe the Bible and that it's true and probably me as well. But it will be too late then. The moment the Illuminati is attacked by the UN is the beginning of the great tribulation which per the Bible might last no more than a year and 3 months. But at that point all the anointed are sealed and the door is closed. That means those sealed on the inside and on the outside of the "banquet"/wedding feast. THEN it will be too late. But everyone will have the "sign" they were looking for and will believe. As far as I'm concerned, we are AT THAT POINT. We're already forewarned that Al Queda is strong and about to attack the U.S. How nice to let us know in advance! So that is real and that can happen. Just like 9/11. No warning! Nothing. Just suddenly chaos. But likely it will be linked back to the Illuminati being behind yet another war scam or terrorist scam which all the conspiracy theory people are claiming they are behind anyway. And IF and once that happens, the UN will of course have the LEGAL right to confiscate all their funds! So everything is truly already in place! Armageddon could happen at any time now. The political and psychological concept of an unstable world and a world at war is upon us. Anyway, I hope for the best for you. But God excludes no one who should be part of his kingdom. Some just at this point are at different levels of exposure to the Creator. So don't feel necessarily excluded from the big picture if you happen to be excluded from the "banquet." Not to worry. JCanon
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  JCanon

  "God just said, without a blink: "I WAS ALWAYS HERE."
  
  So you saw him too. What's he look like?
  
  I am not arguing or questioning the existence of god, but I do question man's conception of what he is/isn't based on so called scriptures and the interpretation of those scriptures. Then factor in the power of the mind and some amazing things are possible.

  You know what (I'm grinning). He is JUST like the Bible describes him. Basically, he looks like a black man with medium complexion and a finely combed natural, similar to like Michael Jackson used to wear or that guy on Mod Squad. 9 “I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white just like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. So he was consistent as described in the Bible. Now today we've seen the "natural" hairdo so we know what it looks like, but back then probably nobody had seen a natural before so that's as close as they could come to describing it, like clean finely combed wool. I've described his facial features as "similar" to a famous person that others could relate to and that is the late Gregory Hines. Not exactly, just "similar" and generally. Both in his height (he's medium to short statured, not thin) and his complexion. But knowing this, it makes you wonder why God would choose the natural as his personal image of who he is, say rather than long curls or something. Satan's hair was short, not sure if it was blonde but it wasn't dark, he was obviously good looking (like Brad Pitt, stunning!) and, of course, white (not "of course" white that's what Satan would be if he were beautiful or evil, but "of course, white" because Brad Pitt is white and he resembles him generally.) So the answer is the same. He looks like he is described in the Bible. Same hairdo. Jesus is wooly-haired too as described in the Bible, and copper-toned in skin color. So he basically, if you saw him, would look like a copper-tone complected black person if you saw him. But his manifestation to humans is always in this incredibly shimmering and BRIGHT white long garment. I didn't see his face only the flash of his feet and the hem of his garment once. But that is just as described too. This incredible flash of bright light and this nearly blinding white garment. So, I don't know, I haven't thought about the consistency, but what I experienced is exactly how it's described by others, so there is nothing new there. But I will say this. Once on some program I happened to be turned to on TV, on one of these public stations, there was this woman who was getting a following who said she had seen Jesus and how real it was and she was describing what it was like and how she just felt bathed in this sense of love, PURE LOVE. Well that's exactly my experience too. So now, even though I sort of listened to what she was saying and how amazed and convinced she was, I really didn't believe it was real, I mean it was a positive experience. But now that I have experienced the identical thing, I have to suppose that Christ actually did appear to her for some reason. She described ahead of time what I experienced later to the point where I understand precisely what she meant. I don't know if this means anything, but details count. He had on a collarless garment with closely set covered buttons (i.e. bottons made out of the same cloth of his garment), which I recall what somewhat beige. And finally, if you want a sense of his demeanor, for all the cartoon depictions of what God is like, he is not unsimilar to the concept you might have seen of his little creator who makes things. He comes off more as a genius like Albert Einstein than say an artistic. More of a scientist and INVENTOR! That's it! If we were to categorize and he'd choose some profession in the earth, you find him in the lab inventing all kinds of amazing things. He's this BRILLIANT individual who just knows how to create things. But I will say this. I AIN'T LIKE MOSES! Moses had Jehovah actually pass in front of him because he wanted to see him so badly. I guess that's a Jewish thing. They want to SEE God and touch him and get involved. I'm scared to death! I just want to bow my head down low and close my eyes. I'm like those "other Jews" who say: "TALK TO MOSES! PLEASE DON'T APPEAR TO US!" because it was too much, all that smoke and noise and thunder and everything. OH! Finally, God talks normally when you're in the setting with him talking one on one. I don't remember anything distinctively characteristic about his voice, it self was very warm and kind. But when he speaks so that you hear his voice, it sounds like thunder in rumbling in the background! As soon as I heard it I immediately understood what was said by others that it had the sound of thunder, muted kind of thunder in the background of his voice. Not loud clashing thunder, but the thunder rumble you hear from a distant storm. So that's the same too. Just like the Bible says. And I'll share this with you as well, just since we're asking and 98% of the people are not going to believe me anyway. He likes to GAMBLE! Now that sounds strange doesn't it? But I was in a situation where I was being tested and I was allowed to see Jehovah above me and he was with Satan. And they were there together betting on how much pain I could take. Jehovah was very happy about my pain threshhold I guess from before and he was sort of bragging to Satan about it, urging Satan to make a wager of how much pain I was able to take. I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT! So I kinda said, "Um, hey? Why are you doing this? etc. etc." I wasn't up for it, really, and so Jehovah felt sorry for me and called it off and Satan left. So I guess I kinda let him down a bit since he wanted to prove to Satan something; maybe Satan said I'd scream if I was forced to take too much pain or something, I don't know. BUT... it is the same thing that happened with JOB, remember? Jehovah likes to show off his personal servants who will do anything for him, and Satan is always claiming I guess that they will break at some point. I guess he thinks deep down all the humans are phonies and he's out to prove it. Unfortunately, he does most of the time, but when he can't God is happy to make a wager. So that was interesting, but still consistent with the BIBLE. Satan is this arch-enemy of Christ and God yet up until he was kicked out of heaven, God sent him on missions to do what he does best, test people. AND, God will use his expertise after the 1000-year reign is over. I guess for Satan to be satisfied he has to do the evil stuff himself with his hands-on expertise, so God allows him to do it so there is no questions about what's going on. So there is this CONTEST going on, with God and Jesus and his angels on one side and Satan and his on the other. And they are seeing who is going to win whom. They are competing over saving or corrupting people over life and death. Now that shocked me, but it's not new. It's very much God's personality to gamble and to take Satan up on his challenges. Very interesting. But absolutely Biblical. Absolutely some of the same routine. That's why I'm a prophet basically, sent here to tell people that there are going to be DESTROYED if they don't shape up! There is absolutely no doubt about it. My message is like honey, sweet to the taste but bitter to the stomach. I can say basically, that if anyone has any hints of arrogance, especially intellectual arrogance or any hint of racist tendencies, they most assuredly will have a difficult time escaping God's wrath. Those are just buttons with God that get pushed. God overlooks a lot of sins but those two things bring out a blinding rage. The Bible says he is VENGEFUL? What? We're not going to believe it and invent some other God? NO. Pay attention to that. JCanon
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  JCanon

  JCanon....does the fact that the face of the child is held in the right hand of God in the Rev. pic, have any specific meaning to you?

  You know, I haven't considered it completely. At one point I thought it was secretly sent out by the JIOR. But the picture isn't even "subliminal" it's totally and clearly a black face with his eyes closed. So it's an anti-christ message as far as I'm concerned. But it may have been inevitable to show it in his right hand to camouflage it with his handing the scroll to John. Rev. 5:1 specifically says the scroll is in his right hand. 1 And I saw in the right hand of the One seated upon the throne a scroll written within and on the reverse side, sealed tight with seven seals. So because you have to secretly depict this, I don't think they had a choice here and thus right vs left may not have been an option. But I wonder about the specific gesture of his hand, which fits the left hand of Baphomet in relation to the dark moon, verses the right hand gesture. So maybe the symbolism of the fingers in those positions is the "left hand reference" via Baphomet and the Mysteries so that it is understood this substitutes for the left hand even though they were limited artistically in using the left hand versus the right. So this I consider to be a semi-compromise. But I'm glad you brought it up, because the hand gesture of the left hand in Freemasonry is used by the right hand so that would overcome the right hand being used if right vs left was positive vs negative, and thus it still is a negative representation. So yes-and-no. I think the right hand had to be used to get by with the cryptic reference but it is made into a reference of a left hand in other ways, i.e. the right hand becomes the left hand by the left-handed gesture of Baphomet pointing to the "black" moon. Is Baphomet pointing to the black messiah with is left, who is beneath him and the white messiah with his right which is above him? An occult reference to the first and second coming known to the demons? ??? JCanon
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  yucca

  Yesterday I watched a movie called The Privleged Planet. This documrntary explores the evidence for intelligent design in the universe. The documentary uses astonishing images of earth and its universe. Its worth watching and maybe afterwards you might decide there is a God
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  icyestrm

  Whether someone believes in 'god' or not, its their belief and we should not force our values on others.
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  JCanon

  Jc are there others like urself that have had this experience . Im not going to say you are lying .Im not. No matter at the moment. Listen though ..there is a certain individual named THE PROPHET OF YAHWEH. He claims to be in contact with Yahweh. He also claims to be able to call ufos in the sky at his beckon call....believe it or not its on google video.a news team recorded lights in the sky when he took them for the dare in the local park. Why does God operate like this JC?

  Frankly, I haven't checked him out. But just as there are many secret societies of Christ out there there are opposing ones and fake ones too.

  For instance, different groups are shown different signs. I get the impression it is sort of what they ask for and set up and then God demonstrates it to them. Just like some who really are desperate to see the messiah, usually Jehovah arranges that for them if they want it bad enough and are willing to spend and travel to make it happen.

  So until I actually check him out, I don't personally know. But just as the Bible says, he sent out TEN SLAVES to gather the anointed right? Only one slave failed. That was the witness organization. What was given them is given to the slave that had a ten-fold increase. But it seems these are all different kinds of "ministries" that focus on different things and different aspects of the kingdom. The WTS was to focus on prophecy and preaching the good news. That is not necessarily what the others are focussed on. So I don't know for sure, but most of them are totally secret, so that's one count against anyone publicly actually recruiting anyone. IF he's just a prophet like me claiming things that can't be proven then maybe he's a prophet as well. BUT...if I check him out and he's is in the least way non-Biblical, then he's a phony. God doesn't tell anyone anything NEW apart from the Scriptures. The Scriptures are the bottom line.

  Remember in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, where the Rich Man asks God to let Lazarus preach to his five brothers? But God refuses because he says if they don't believe "Moses and the prophetes" (i.e. the Bible) then neither would they believe Lazarus. So it's not likely Jehovah is working outside the Scriptures.

  In the meantime, you have the complication that Jehovah, after the Holocaust and after 1947 has approved Judaism as a form of acceptable worship now. So if you wanted to publically serve God, you could join Judaism if you wanted to. The witness organization, unlike Judaism, has been cast off as apostate. So having said that, I don't think any open and public gathering of Christ's followers of anyone directly talking with God is going to be real. It is either a totally secret society, or Judaism at this point, or just your personal faith.

  Finally, the Bible did say there would be many false Christs that would appear and mislead many, so. But you never know, it could be a camouflage. Maybe I don't know of him personally so that I don't blow his cover. So I'm not saying is absolutely is not, but I'm not saying he is, either.

  Also remember the Apostle Paul and John are still here from the 1st Century. Not sure how Jehovah will reveal them maybe before Armageddon, right? So who knows how they will appear? Even in Jesus' day, John had his own followers and Jesus his. So I guess we'll see.

  JCanon
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  Blackboo

  Evil comes from Satan who at one time was faithful to God. Enough proof. He had other plans and he wanted to be God in controling things. These things are evident about how satan thinks...immorality, unthankful, proud, lack of good will toward others. Most people think the devil is a joke but they are dead wrong..and his favorite method is getting people to believe he is a myth. The bible says the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who dont believe..that "god" is Satan. Look how materialistic the world is and how people only concern themselves about having fun that day never thinking about the future. The bible warns just like the days of Noah so is the son of man will be..Jehovah's Witnesses are just on the wrong field and being mislead by a false religious system.
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  John Doe

  I'm not a sinner. I do not commit sin. Sin as a religious force does not exist in my life. I need no external ideals or impositions to make my own morality and live a constructive life.

  You make the claim that evil proves God exists. I invite you to define "evil."
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  Shawn10538

  nvrgnbk! I love it! Perfect! Great honorable mention of Friedman's great work "Who wrote the Bible/" Yeah, this guy reaffirms my non-belief in God. Why don't religious people feel embarrassed at their truly ignorant arguments. Seriously, I've read so many arguments for and against God, and those for God never cease to commit the logical fallacy of "begging the question." I recommend a great book called "Logic and contemporary rhetoric" by Kahane for anyone that's interested. This book is the touchstone of critical thinking - priceless. Consider the possibility that everyone who has ever lived has gotten everything completely wrong. Evolution or not, it doesn't prove that God exists just because evolution is wrong. There's still an infinity of exlanations for our origins aside from evolution and creationism. The great spaghetti monster is one of my favorite explanations.