Proof of God's existence

by Blackboo 96 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  JWdaughter

  I have not read any responses to your post. I am merely going to respond to the first couple of sentences. I do not have personal experiences with religion, people or personal issues that convince me that there is no God. I am not convinced because of science. I actually am not 'convinced' of the existence or non-existence of a god or gods.

  I will tell you however, that the Bible is what made me start to really question if there was a god who created us. I firmly do not believe in the god of the Bible. If there were truly such a being, I would not worship him. Manipulation, sexism, racism-this is a god we should worship? The only difference between the crazy 'pagans' and the Israelites/Christians is that the latter groups believed in ONE god (however you interpret that), rather than a pantheon. Their god required sacrifice(even of their children), required killing (all those babies of 'pagans'), rape, warring. . .they had the same festivals, with different names (seasonal-same stuff, different deity), temples etc. Their god made women property, gave them a law that (according to godly rep. Jesus) was IMPOSSIBLE to follow perfectly. All my experience with 'god' is based on the Bible, and THAT god is the one I am not believing in. Men have made gods for themselves as long as man could articulate the idea. Jews just decided that theirs was better than the other gods. I am not playing the game.

  Now I will read the rest of the responses.
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  emptywords

  So basically, those who are WISE-VIRGIN MINDED are the ones who get in. They are already focussed, already believing but don't have enough light to understand everything. When that call comes that the messiah has arrived, which occurred in the fall of1998 actually

  JCanon are you sure you're not one of the GB moonlighting on this forum, picking dates, where on earth did you come up with this 1998 date....
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  JCanon

  So basically, those who are WISE-VIRGIN MINDED are the ones who get in. They are already focussed, already believing but don't have enough light to understand everything. When that call comes that the messiah has arrived, which occurred in the fall of1998 actually

  JCanon are you sure you're not one of the GB moonlighting on this forum, picking dates, where on earth did you come up with this 1998 date....

  Well, no, I'm not a member of the GB who was "disfellowshipped" from Jehovah's Heavenly Organization on November 10, 1992. As far as the 1998 fall date, it relates to the "last hour" I suppose. In the parable of the "vineyard workers" they work for 11 hours and then the Master pays them in the 12th hour, which is the "last hour". An hour in the Bible is 7 years because a 1/2 hour is 42 months. So the work would be for 77 years (11 x 7) from 1914 to 1991. The 3rd hour workers show up and are not told they would be getting a penny and this makes the 3rd through the 11th-hour workers in a different class than the 1st and 2nd-hour workers who knew in advance they would receive the "penny". Thus 21 years into the work, 1935, the second class appears among JWs as the "other sheep" class, who believe in only the earthly hope. Just a little background to show you this involves specifically the witness organization. At any rate, the "last hour" when the workers are paid, they are all paid a "penny" but from the last to the first; from the 11th hour workers, those who came in last to the first who were in the work the longest. Thus it would be near the end of that last hour that the original anointed still alive who make up the 1st-hour worker class would find out about so many of the other sheep class now getting into the kingdom just like them! The last hour would be from 1991-1998. So at the very end of this hour is when the anointed find out about the sealing into the kingdom of the messiah. But only HALF of them are able to respond correctly to this new set of circumstances. Even though the Bible clearly shows that EVERY WORKER gets the same thing, the penny and they ALL go to heaven, for instance, the WTS preaches that they alone are the 11th-hour workers who get the penny, and the 1st-hour workers are Christendom, since Christendom had been in the work longer than they do. But clearly the 1st-hour workers get the penny too! Christ says, "Take your money and go!" So they are not EXCLUDED. They just get paid last. And what about the 3rd through the 9th-hour workers who get the penny too? Who are they that are also going to heaven? So clearly the GB and WTS are "clueless" as to what is going on. So the "foolish virgins" pay attention to what the Watchtower says and are not interested in deviating in the slightest degree. The "wise virgins" though are more Biblically oriented so when it is pointed out to them the details of the kingdom at hand, they check their Bibles to see if it's true. They are like the Bereans who check everything out, regardless of where the information is coming from. Thus they scramble and get their lights burning in time to get into the kingdom. So basically half of the anointed accept right away and the other half lose out, even though they do finally accept as well and show up to enter into the wedding feast but their seats have been assigned to others. Anyway, specific details of this event that was fulfilled in 1998 occurred, I was just putting it into context. But this board does not allow for those details to be discussed, so I can't really give you any more details. But that's basically where the 1998 dating comes from, a year late in the "last hour" when the 1st-hour workers would be paid and when the truth and details of the kingdom were revealed. So that's the story of the 1998 date. It's the last year of the "last hour". JCanon
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  DeusMauzzim

  To all true believers and self-styled prophets, receivers of revelations etc.

  I invited you for a true discussion (ie based on logical, valid and sound arguments) about the bible and its sources (see my post on the first page), and none of you prophets responded to that.

  All you do is assert, assert, assert, without giving any rational evidence, or making it clear why we should accept your premises in the first place.

  You have the most wild interpretations of scripture (can't you see there is 2000+ years of people doing that before you?), but you don't want to discuss why scripture is "special / godly / inspired", the premise of your argument.

  - Did you ever do research into the textual sources for the genesis account, the flood narrative, the tower of babel? When was the Gilgamesh-epos written? In what language?

  - Do you truly believe Daniel was written by Daniel? Do you know anything about the linguistic development of Aramaic?

  - Does "documentary hypothesis" sound like an exotic meal for you or do you know what I'm talking about?

  - For all: just curious, but these questions do come up in your mind, I hope, or am I very naive here? I mean, I don't hope the reasoning is like.. well the book saysit's been written by Daniel, so of course it must have been written by Daniel! This is simply not valid reasoning (ie based on logic, not on anyone's authority)

  Regards,

  Deus Mauzzim

  (mildly irritated by the lack of rationality in the 21st century )
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  emptywords

  JWDaughter, you're response to the question is the most valid I have read, and is one to keep in mind.
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  B_Deserter

  I've found that those who claim to have "logical" proof of God actually use the most illogical line of thinking. Why does science HAVE to explain what WE define as "evil?" Animals kill each other all the time. Murder is a fact of life, nothing more. I suggest reading "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins for scientific answers to these questions.

  I also cringe whenever I hear about so-called "gaps" in the fossil record. Do you realize how extremely unlikely it is for something to be fossilized? What we DO see in the fossil record confirms evolution, and no, there is NO debate in the scientific world that this happened (the only debates are HOW it happened). Since creationists already have their pre-defined conclusion, they will never be convinced that life came about by natural selection, no matter how many fossils we find. This is a logical fallacy. Do you need EVERY piece of a jigsaw puzzle assembled before you can know what the picture is? Creationism likes to hide in the gaps. It puts a burden of proof on science that would make the creation hypothesis crumble if it was scrutinized the same way.

  Before arguing for creation, I suggest actually studying evolution. Most creationists don't understand it properly (eg "all came about by chance") and end up arguing against some bizarre imaginary caricature of evolution they dreamed up in their heads.
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  kerj2leev

  Then suddenly God shows up with a vengeance and executes all the nonbelievers. BUT, before they actually expire they are totally believers, right? Because they see with their own eyes.

  So God destorys all nonbelievers, but right before we die we believe. So then we won't be destroyed right?
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  serotonin_wraith

  Why do humans murder each other?

  It could be partly because they believe the creator of the universe wants them to, as it's written in their holy books.

  Less religion = less killing.
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  DeusMauzzim

  I've found that those who claim to have "logical" proof of God actually use the most illogical line of thinking.

  Well spoken, B_Deserter, well spoken...

  Regards,

  Deus Mauzzim
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  avengers

  Lysergic acid diethylamide

  GOD in a capsule. I think you can buy them for about $ 10,-- a capsule. Dare you to go out and drop a couple. You will never think the same way again.