IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...

by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry
    A popular saying comes to mind. It's not the destination, but the journey.

    Would you rather pack your family in the car and get out the map for Wally World or Disney World?

    The end of your journey might prove the value of a real destination over a fictional one!

    Pull the car up to an empty lot and see your children's faces as you explain: "Kids, there is no real Wally World. It was just a fictional place in a movie. But, wasn't our road trip fun looking forward to all the joy we'd have when we arrived?"

    Really now, you surprise me!

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    Until man had the means (the science) to actually see the Earth from space the shape of the Earth was just as abstract!

    I thought you were arguing about "objective things." The shape of the earth has not changed. People's notions about the shape of the earth has changed.

    Let me restate my original statement. The earth is a physical entity. Justice is a concept. You can't touch justice, you can't eat justice, you can't live in justice, you can't drive justice, you can't hold justice. Justice exists only in the mind. Therefore, it is abstract.

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    Would you rather pack your family in the car and get out the map for Wally World or Disney World? The end of your journey might prove the value of a real destination over a fictional one! Pull the car up to an empty lot and see your children's faces as you explain: "Kids, there is no real Wally World. It was just a fictional place in a movie. But, wasn't our road trip fun looking forward to all the joy we'd have when we arrived?" Really now, you surprise me!

    Once again, you're transposing the abstract for the physical. Disney World is physical. Any notion we have of death and life after death is abstract. These are hardly on the same field.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Do you feel condescending when you say this? I have compassion for people who are not happy. If someone is happy, of what relevance is the nature of their beliefs?

    Belief in a life defining fiction is CRUEL!

    Lying to a dying cancer patient that a crackpot treatment is curing them is sadistic!

    The quality of our life squarely depends on the quality of our sense of reality.

    Would you rather your children play with real friends or imaginary ones? What if they are 40 years old and still talking to imaginary friends?

    Would your rather save money for retirement so that you can have quality of life or blow it all now because you believe Armageddon makes saving irrelevent?

    Would your rather see somebody let their child die when a medical procedure can save them just because they've been taught they are under a 2,000 year old injunction?

    Life is practical.

    A steaming load is a steaming load.

    We OWE IT to the people we love to be honest with them.

    The life we have is contingent upon how we maintain it. Make-believe waxed fruit does not nourish our physical body. What makes you think make-believe waxed beliefs can do any better?

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    The quality of our life squarely depends on the quality of our sense of reality.

    That's highly debatable. Also, you admitted to being made different in your beliefs by belonging to the wtbs.

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    Would you rather your children play with real friends or imaginary ones? What if they are 40 years old and still talking to imaginary friends?

    I don't know. Stephen King sure makes a good living and seems happy. ;-)

  • Terry
    Terry
    Until man had the means (the science) to actually see the Earth from space the shape of the Earth was just as abstract!
    I thought you were arguing about "objective things." The shape of the earth has not changed. People's notions about the shape of the earth has changed.

    Let me restate my original statement. The earth is a physical entity. Justice is a concept. You can't touch justice, you can't eat justice, you can't live in justice, you can't drive justice, you can't hold justice. Justice exists only in the mind. Therefore, it is abstract.

    Everything in your mind starts out as a concept!

    Why can't you understand that?

    Learning the difference between the impact of false conceptual premises and true conceptual premises is the subject of our discussion!

    Do you not see the hypocritcal nature of your argument now?

    Religion, the Bible, Christianity can throw metaphors around like crazy and you embrace it with warm hugs and a teary eye like it was a hot meal on a cold night. But, when it comes to having a discussion about conceptual matters you get all indignant when definitions are called for and it becomes necessary to parse practical from impractical consequences.

    The shape of the earth is only a PHYSICAL matter because we have CONCEPTUALIZED it as such.

    Otherwise, it would be like Camelot or Atlantis.

    Further, there was historically an honest debate about the matter of Earth's flatness vs roundness fueled by the fact IT WASN'T POSSIBLE YET to view Earth from a vantage point.

    Now it is no longer INTELLECTUALLY HONEST to claim the Earth is flat. Why? Because we can provide substantiating evidence which trumps the old arguments about antipodes, etc.

    The same is true of BIBLE EXPLANATIONS.

    Surely you see this.

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    The life we have is contingent upon how we maintain it. Make-believe waxed fruit does not nourish our physical body. What makes you think make-believe waxed beliefs can do any better?

    Would you care if you had a placebo if it had the desired effects? Now we're getting into psychology. You're making psychological arguments while thinking your making objective observations. I think we need to distinguish the two.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Once again, you're transposing the abstract for the physical. Disney World is physical. Any notion we have of death and life after death is abstract. These are hardly on the same field.

    You are lost in what the point of my reply to your posts concern.

    You stated that the "journey" is more important than the destination.

    Your use of the "journey" was clearly a metaphor for one's experience in life holding religious beliefs.

    If that isn't abstract I don't know what is.

    Get a grip!

    I refuted your premise by show the PRACTICAL result of thinking that way.

    My reference to reality was meant to be a way of you discovering that your "journey" idea was going to lead to disappointment when your destination was fictional.

    A popular saying comes to mind. It's not the destination, but the journey.
  • John Doe
    John Doe
    Religion, the Bible, Christianity can throw metaphors around like crazy and you embrace it with warm hugs and a teary eye like it was a hot meal on a cold night. But, when it comes to having a discussion about conceptual matters you get all indignant when definitions are called for and it becomes necessary to parse practical from impractical consequences.

    I'm not indignant Terry. Also, I would be surprised if I do not make hypocritical arguments. I think that being hypocritical is a basic human tendency. Sure, I try to minimize my hypocrisy as we all do, but it's still there.

    I think our disagreement comes down to what we assign as being abstract and what we assign as being concrete. You seem to take the position that the concrete is better in all cases than the abstract. I, however, disagree.

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