IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...

by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Terry

  So the question is: How do you INHERIT a paid-for debt?

  The answer is the debt was not paid for. Adam the sinner could not redeem such life simply because he died. We cannot redeem ourselves simply because we die. That same life still condemned continued along with those that possess it. The possessors of it die, yes, that much is true. But the giver of that very life had to sacrifice that same life faithfully in order to make it possible for that life to be redeemed by the same blood that is common to us all. It did not matter when in time this took place. It only mattered that it did take place to make it possible for us to gain not just life, but eternal life during this last day.

  Adam is still alive, then? You say his LIFE is still alive and the people who possess it die. Are you speaking English?

  If you possess LIFE you are alive. People cannot "POSSESS" life because it is a chemical process of self-sustained actions at a cellular level. It is not the GHOST or God magic you pretend it is.

  REDEEMING Life is another matter. You do not and cannot redeem life. You have to try and determine the VALUE of the life lost.

  So, you've even missed the point of that!

  The VALUE of life is what gets redeemed and not LIFE itself.

  How do you manage to keep all of this straight in your head when it is so jumbled, chaotic and entangled with bent conceptual framework???

  Amazing!
• 

  Terry

  Terry, I'm not trying to hijack your topic just adding to it. You have answered many who have responded and showed were they have erred in their responses. Have you read Alanf's response to these type of questions?

  You aren't hijacking!

  My question is hypothetical in the sense that I don't accept any of the scriptural "information" as authentic to reality. I am arguing on the basis that it should be treated AS THOUGH it should make sense. (Which it doesn't.)

  I can't recall if I've read Alan F's thread or not. A link would be nice. I'm sure Alan-F's article is more cogent than what I'm doing here!
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  Terry

  Further, failing to ascertain whether a concept is fanciful or concrete is a sure sign of trouble.

  Tell me this, when a story is told, does the question of whether it actually happened or not have any relevance to what we can learn from it?

  Since our topic is JUSTICE I'll use a court of law as the setting for my answer.

  A witness is on the witness stand testifying about an accident. Does whether or not her testimony contains information about what ACTUALLY HAPPENDED have any RELEVENCE?

  If we cannot distinguish fact from fancy we are all in a world of trouble!

  Passing the Bible off as actual reality rather than myth is the reason people are so confused about words, concepts, definitions and how they impact on everyday REALITY!

  You may as well pretend Sherlock Holmes is real and say it doesn't matter because he was a model of logical detective work.

  We don't worship Holmes. We don't devote our lives to serving him. But, knowing he was fictional makes a difference.
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  Terry

  John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

  The metaphorical use of "light" as a way of "seeing" should tip you off to the metaphorical use of the word "life".

  But, somehow it doesn't. Why is that?
• 

  RAF

  John Doe ! thanks (for showing in short, clear and english the fallacy of Terry's arguments).

  so to all of you ...

  This is something you all might want to read bebore arguing with someone likeTerry / Religious or creationists / Evolutioniste ANYBODY who absolutely wants to prove that their opinion weight like pure logic or proof ...

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies (with example)

  without proof the only thing we are left with are opinions, as well as without the very same experience in being the very same person.
• 

  Terry

  I think we can all agree whether we believe Jesus was real or was a fanciful feature of men's imaginations that he used some excellent metaphors to make points while teaching.

  So did Socrates (on whom Jesus' style of speaking is clearly modeled).

  We don't know if Socrates was a real person or not because we only have Plato's writings about him to go on.

  But, you miss maybe the most important part of all this: SALVATION is not what Socrates taught.

  Mankind has wasted its precious few years of existence chasing SALVATION. If it is a myth, a fanciful metaphor--shouldn't we tell that right out?

  Why waste your life pursuing the lost chord, the fountain of youth, the lost city of gold or the pot of gold at rainbow's end if the BLOODY THING ISN'T REAL???

  Don't you have any compassion for people who really buy into this steaming load?
• 

  Terry

  Life is above and more than the sum total of our parts. Rationalization and logic will not accurately describe what life is.

  A flight to the moon was above and beyond man's capability until he got busy using his brain to make it happen.

  LIFE is not a mystery; it is a clearly defined process of chemistry and physics.

  What is mysterious is how the human MIND can concoct space travel that becomes reality.

  With the same lump of grey matter we can trick our own selves into burning incense to an imaginary character written about by primitive nomads!!

  Jaw-droppingly mysterious if you ask me!
• 

  John Doe

  Why waste your life pursuing the lost chord, the fountain of youth, the lost city of gold or the pot of gold at rainbow's end if the BLOODY THING ISN'T REAL???

  A popular saying comes to mind. It's not the destination, but the journey.
• 

  Terry

  False analogy. The shape of the earth is a physical question. The notion of justice is an abstract question.

  Until man had the means (the science) to actually see the Earth from space the shape of the Earth was just as abstract! How did the question get argued?

  By logic! Aristotle gave many reasons why roundness and not flatness informed his mind. But, the abstractness of establishing something is not as pertinent as the PRACTICAL SIGNFICANCE.

  Justice, if it is not PRACTICAL, has no significance.

  I say we encounter the practical significance of God's Justice everwhere we go when we see people moved by their BELIEF.

  It can go so far as to inform political policy that leads to war.
• 

  John Doe

  Don't you have any compassion for people who really buy into this steaming load?

  Do you feel condescending when you say this? I have compassion for people who are not happy. If someone is happy, of what relevance is the nature of their beliefs?