IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...

by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry
    Good question. But actually, from the Biblical point of view, the moment Adam sinned is when he died and that's when all his unborn children died too.

    Trapped in a metaphor and nowhere out, eh? There is actual life and there is potential life. Adam had actual life (heart beating). Adam and Eve had no children UNTIL children were born.

    Confusing a potential with an actual is sloppy thinking. Only actual children can be born and only actual children can die.

    Children are the result of birth! You are imputing life to non-existent entities. There was a potential for mating with Eve. If and when each successful pregnancy came to term and birth resulted THEN and only then did they have children.

    This "moment Adam sinned is when he died and when all his unborn children died too" is simply rhetorical nonsense.

    You may as well look at a forest and think of it as potential toothpicks, paper bags and firewood and then declare that it IS all those by-products. Further, you can burn down a forest and that forest is gone taking with it the potential for making toothpicks, paper bags and firewood. However, the forest is GONE. Adam, after his sin, was walking around, eating, drinking and ready for bedtime foreplay for 930 years! You cannot have it both ways!

  • Terry
    Terry
    Good question. But actually, from the Biblical point of view, the moment Adam sinned is when he died and that's when all his unborn children died too.

    Trapped in a metaphor and no way out, eh?

    There is actual life and there is potential life. Adam had actual life (heart beating). Adam and Eve had no children UNTIL children were born.

    Confusing a potential with an actual is sloppy thinking. Only actual children can be born and only actual children can die.

    Children are the result of birth! You are imputing life to non-existent non-entities. There was a potential for mating with Eve. If and when each successful pregnancy came to term and birth resulted THEN and only then did they have children.

    A handful of sperm is not the New York Philharmonic! Potentially it could be...but, great day in the morning---what idiot would confuse one with the other in actuality???

    This "moment Adam sinned is when he died and when all his unborn children died too" is simply rhetorical nonsense.

    You may as well look at a forest and think of it as potential toothpicks, paper bags and firewood and then declare that it IS all those by-products. Further, you can burn down a forest and that forest is gone taking with it the potential for making toothpicks, paper bags and firewood. However, the forest is GONE. Adam, after his sin, was walking around, eating, drinking and ready for bedtime foreplay for 930 years! You cannot have it both ways!

  • eclipse
    eclipse

    If God was a just god, he could of made Adam and Eve's children perfect. (since with god all things are possible) Since God CHOSE to allow us to be left in a sinful state, that makes god a heartless god and completely unjust.

    We do NOT deserve to be punished for the sins of Adam & Eve. Since Adam and Eve both died, they paid for their sin.

    That logic is undeniable.

    We are paying for their sin. God could of given us the choice, but he didn't.

    He chose to leave us, and then make us pay for being sinful, which we cannot help being in the first place.

    This is why I cannot believe that the god of the Bible:

    A) is REAL

    B) deserves to be worshipped.

  • fedorE
    fedorE

    JC "...Now, we can't find fault with God for this arrangement, since the alternative is that you and Goldie Hawn never would have been born. Now which do you prefer? God's arrangement where at least you have a second chance?..............JUST A SECOND HERE....JUST ONE DAM SECOND JC....SO IF THIS IS REALLY THE BEST WAY FOR JEH TO BRING BACK HUMANKIND BACK TO PERFECTION IE. HIS ORIGINAL PURPOSE, AND SATISFY THE DEMANDS OF JUSTICE, PROVIDING HIS SON AS A PERFECT SACRIFICE,ADOPTIVELY SPEAKING, USING UR OWN EXAMPLE, THEN WHY DID JEHOVAH NOT SHOW THROUGH HISTORY HIS OWN SPECIAL REGARD FOR THE FUTURE SHEDDING OF BLOOD. THE BEST EXAMPLE BEING WHEN A COUPLE OF SMARTASS CHILDREN WERE BEING STUPID ASS KIDS , ACTING THIER AGE AND THEY CALLED JEHS PROPHET A "BALDY" JEHOVAH IMMEDIATELY SENT A BEAR TO K I L L THOSE LITTLE CHILDREN. THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE A GOD THAT HAS THOUGHT OUT OUT THE BEST ARRANGEMENT FOR REDEMPTION OF MAN. IT REALLY DOESNT. THE FACT IS THERE DIDNT NEED TO BE A SACRIFICE IF JEH WANTED TO HE COULD HAVE DID IT ANOTHER WAY WITHOUT BRINGING BLOOD INTO THE WHOLE THING.

  • Terry
    Terry
    But God didn't do that. Because if he had, technically when Adam died, then the several billion of his children would have died as well and all those potential people from Adam's DNA would never have been born. God could see into the future and see all those potential people. Abraham, Daniel, Moses, Ricky Martin, Goldie Hawn and Brad Pitt! What a LOSS. What a shame these people would never be born, right?

    More ludicrous, metaphorical, slipshod "reasoning"!

    Do you know anything about the human body? Do you know how many sperm are manufactured, lost, injured, passed in urine and wet dreams and absorbed back into your body each 24 hour period?

    Are you somehow imagining that Adam's gonads contained all of mankind down to Brad Pitt? What copy of Reader's Digest do you read for your physiology information??

    If God could make stones to cry out and could make Balaam's ass talk He could make Brad Pitt anytime He wished to without Adam's help.

    Imputing identity to unformed spermatazoa not even united with eggs which were not yet in ovaries yet to come is beyond whimsical and ignorant---it is pathological nonsense!

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    We do NOT deserve to be punished for the sins of Adam & Eve. Since Adam and Eve both died, they paid for their sin.

    That logic is undeniable.

    But it is disputable. I believe that Christianity teaches that the sins of a perfect person are far worse than the sins of an imperfect person, does it not? In effect, since Adam was perfect, his sin was not paid for with death. That's a simple distinction to make.

    I find the oversimplifications here to be troubling. We're speaking of complex theologies and ideologies that have been argued and discussed for ages by very intelligent people, and dismissing them in one or two short sentences and then saying "the logic is undeniable." If things were so simple, there would be no disagreements.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Adam paid the price, the rest of numanity is paying the interest. Bible god is a jewish banker.

    S

  • eclipse
    eclipse

    But it is disputable. I believe that Christianity teaches that the sins of a perfect person are far worse than the sins of an imperfect person, does it not? In effect, since Adam was perfect, his sin was not paid for with death. That's a simple distinction to make.

    I find the oversimplifications here to be troubling. We're speaking of complex theologies and ideologies that have been argued and discussed for ages by very intelligent people, and dismissing them in one or two short sentences and then saying "the logic is undeniable." If things were so simple, there would be no disagreements.

    Agreed John Doe, It is funny that you state my post was simplistic, since I deleted the first line I typed before submitting:

    ''This is a simplistic answer''.

    I am not so much of an idiot so as to not see that, or know that this has been argued and discussed by intelligent people for ages.

    While the argument that a perfect man's sin is far greater than a sinful man's makes sense and is logical...if Adam's sin was so great, why wasn't he killed after 100-200 years? (that is enough time to produce children, is it not?)...Why was he allowed to live for 930? I guess that is for only theologians and ideologians to discuss.

  • Terry
    Terry
    I believe that Christianity teaches that the sins of a perfect person are far worse than the sins of an imperfect person, does it not?

    Adam was not a perfect person. Demonstrably so!

    Perfect is as perfect does.

    Adam failed his very first and only test of perfection DID HE NOT?

    How can he BE perfect while failing to be?

    There is NO scriptural doctrine of perfection.

    There is no scriptural explanation of "perfect" in humanity=worse sin.

    This St.Augustine's imagination.

  • Terry
    Terry
    LOGISTICS: But how? Well, in order to do that, it's the logistics of allowing enough time for as many of Adam's children to be born as possible, say over close to 6000 years.

    Refuted utterly by the destruction of the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE at Noah's flood. Only 8 people saved!

    There goes your silly theory.

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