by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I refuted your premise by show the PRACTICAL result of thinking that way.My reference to reality was meant to be a way of you discovering that your "journey" idea was going to lead to disappointment when your destination was fictional.
For what it's worth, I do not believe in a life after death. Therefore, I highly doubt I'll be disappointed. Furthermore, I never made the claim I was not arguing using the abstract. I believe the abstract to be an important tool.
You seem to take the position that the concrete is better in all cases than the abstract. I, however, disagree.
voilà ... (opinion)
Well, I've said my share and I'm going to bow out of this one and clean my room :-). Terry, while there is much I disagree with you on, you do give us some excellent points to think about.
So the question is: How do you INHERIT a paid-for debt?
The answer is the debt was not paid for.
Adam the sinner could not redeem such life simply because he died. We cannot redeem ourselves simply because we die. That same life still condemned continued along with those that possess it. The possessors of it die, yes, that much is true. But the giver of that very life had to sacrifice that same life faithfully in order to make it possible for that life to be redeemed by the same blood that is common to us all. It did not matter when in time this took place. It only mattered that it did take place to make it possible for us to gain not just life, but eternal life during this last day.Adam is still alive, then? You say his LIFE is still alive and the people who possess it die.
Are you speaking English?Terry,
All you can provide is more philosophy and misinformation I see. This is what I expected. You say Adam is still alive but I did not say that. This error is yours. You say Life is still alive but I say that it still exists as passed on to us from the beginning. Another error on your part. It comes down to this: Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
You said further:
If you possess LIFE you are alive. People cannot "POSSESS" life because it is a chemical process of self-sustained actions at a cellular level. It is not the GHOST or God magic you pretend it is.The real truth is that you do not know what life is and you cannot verify your definitions. Why not admit it? This is after all a discussion that attempts to get at the truth. I do not have to define it the way you attempt. However I can show how important it is to us and to God. Prove your point Terry. After all you are the one that made it.
Terry said:
REDEEMING Life is another matter. You do not and cannot redeem life. You have to try and determine the VALUE of the life lost. So, you've even missed the point of that! The VALUE of life is what gets redeemed and not LIFE itself.Once again you are mistaken. Biblically which is the basis for such a discussion. Redemption means Life itself. Such life is no longer considered as having passed away but is sleeping. I have already shown you this but here is another view: 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. It is not important that you reject this in preference for the things you dream up. This is the very hope that the Faith proclaims to the world. Not everyone will experience it.
And Terry said:
How do you manage to keep all of this straight in your head when it is so jumbled, chaotic and entangled with bent conceptual framework???That was a great comment. Much better than what I expected. Once again you provide a good example of the wisdom that you bring to a biblical discussion board.
Joseph
Our blood is mostly water and nutrients. Yet, you say God values this above the human person???
What are you thinking? Or, are you thinking?
Terry,
There is plenty of water and nutrients on this planet. But only blood can restore someone desperately needing it. Do your know why? What are you thinking? Or are you thinking. As for the rest of your post, much the same applies. A person seemingly brain dead and on machinery can recover. This has happened time and again. But our hope is that of many that came before us: Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Believe it or not.
Joseph
If I design and create something new at work, who is to blame if it doesn't work? Me or the thing I've created. If I tell twenty people how to do something and they all get it wrong, are they to blame or do I have to take responsibility for not making clear what I expected of those people?
Someone needs to take some responsibility. Yeah, i'm looking at you, old guy with the white beard.
What EXISTS is always testable. The difficult part for science is inventing the methodology for testing, quantifying and measuring what actually exists
Terry, you said it yourself with the above words.
Fred Alan Wolf, PhD said this:
"Quantum physics posits that there has to be something else that is outside of the material, that's something that we really can't observe, but its consequences is observable, this thing that we can't observe. And assume that we can't observe in a language of quantum physics is given different names. It's sometimes called PSI, like the Greek letter. Or it's called a quantum wave function or it's called a quantum wave aplitude, or a quantum probability aplitude, or a quantum state vector. It has many different names but it essentially refers to something which is invisible which is a field of possibility rather than an a field of actuality like say for example a magnetic field is a field of actuality. We can see a magnetic field by shaking iron filings around a magnet for example. We can't see the field of possibility out there in space. All we can do is observe its consequences in time. We observe by making a number of experiments. We see that there was some kind of guidance principle through time that's expressing the things we see in nature. But we don't see it like we would see a magnetic field. Nevertheless, we believe this field is real and exists in some way. But it is not a real field that we can tangibly grab onto. So it's the closest thing we can come to as being something called spiritual, or spirituality, or the essence of spirit is this quantum field of possibility. So I would say that quantum physics is really pointing to, or indicating a direction for spirituality to take. It's pointing to where spirituality and science might find a common ground."
The quality of our life squarely depends on the quality of our sense of reality.That's highly debatable. Also, you admitted to being made different in your beliefs by belonging to the wtbs.
I had no beliefs.
I had no theological positions to defend.
My friend, Johnny, introduced them to me.
It was a first.
I was defenseless largely because Johnny's premise was artificially constructed apologetics which required special knowledge of terminology and stage-settings of which I was wholly or partly ignorant.
I resisted his insistence all the way while being simultaneously being absorbed into the flock of the Kingdom Hall by the social acceptance I received there.
It was by osmosis I discovered the colorful Disney-esque world of religious scenarios under Jehovah's Witness instruction.
Since it was the ONLY such instruction I had up to that time I was indoctrinated by it.
By the time I had entered Federal Prison I was committed to an ideology.
After release I became a fanatical practitioner of prescribed behaviors.
One shapes one's views in the face of resistance as one seeks to make sense of where we are in life.
By totally immersing myself in a fantasy world where invisible persons were at war with one another (and me) I sought to preserve my life according to the scenario which fit that preservation.
Believe me, I could do without ever having heard a word of the Bible or the delusions which follow along with it.
Would you rather your children play with real friends or imaginary ones? What if they are 40 years old and still talking to imaginary friends?I don't know. Stephen King sure makes a good living and seems happy. ;-)
And you spoke to ME about false analogy?
How many people believe there is a real person named CARRIE who had the power of telekinesis?
How many people book reservations at the Overlook Hotel hoping to glimpse the evil there? (Well, maybe a lot of people do since the film's hotel is real enough!)
My point is obvious. Bible fiction is passed off as REAL.
You will find Stephen King in the fiction section of a bookstore.
The Bible you will not find in fiction.
That is most unfortunate!
No! Double jeopardy is never fair. Good points!
Chenoa
