doesnt the bible itself call jesus the greater adam....and that being the case, it says jesus was perfect in one way or another....
IS IT FAIR TO PAY THE SAME DEBT TWICE?? Divine Justice...
by Terry 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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nvrgnbk
The world will be a better place when faith is replaced by earnest investigation of reality.
Such a transformation cannot and should not be forced.
Education is making it happen, ever so slowly.
It amazes me to see how one can leave the WT and yet cherish and cling to much of the indoctrination, simply throwing a new label on it.
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Terry
But, in order to get the second-chance life, one must be born and then die, except those who are alive whenJudgment Day begins, of course. So that death they die is really not a penalty they are paying. It's just the fact that they do not have the physical ability to live past old age due to imperfection.
What pretzel logic do you subscribe to, anyway?
Is this utter madness parading as God's thinking???
Do you realize it makes more sense NEVER to hear the Gospel preached than it does to listen? Because, logically, if you don't hear you stand a better chance of not being judged worthy of death because of ignorace! The preaching work kills more people than it saves!
In your screwball, cartoon scenario death is not a PENALTY!!
The wages sin pays is death. Death is death. Dying results in death. Death is a penalty. It is payment for sin.
Why try and talk your way around this??
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journey-on
Consider this: Atheists/Agnostics/Religionists THIS IS NOT AS FAR-FETCHED AS YOU MIGHT INITIALLY THINK!
The "fall" of man was an act against the natural law of God. The Divine Creator brought forth each according to its own kind and they were to multiply in the earth according to their own kind. God mandated this umpteen gazillion times!
Missing link. There were other humans or hominids already here on earth when God placed Adam in the garden of Eden (also a metaphor). Adam was different in that he was more spiritual with a soul (God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man came to be a living soul). He was created in the likeness of his Father. There was none found among all that God created suitable as a mate for Adam. God provided a woman in the image of Adam for a help mate.
Eve partook of something forbidden and contaminated the pure blood and Adam followed suit. Based on God's just recompense law, he would have covered their mouths rather than their genitals had the "sin" been just disobeying a command not to eat of a certain fruit tree.
She introduced into the DNA --- the blood line --- the gene pool --- however you want to say it, a contamination that introduced death like the animals and hominids.
This is just another hypothesis that makes SOME sense. The "death gene" is in the BLOOD because of going outside God's mandate to procreate with one's own kind.
Mendel's law states that "every individual is the sum total of the characteristics, recessive or dominant, in its two immediate progenitors. There is nothing in any individual that was not in the father or mother of that person, and everything that was in the father and mother is in the offspring."
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Gopher
Well you see, humanity is like a cake pan that has a dent.
That dent has been passed down to all of us.
JUST KIDDING.
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eclipse
Some substance totally foreign (not of the same kind) to the pure blood was introduced into Man's body and it was this that brought death to mankind for it was passed down through the blood. God's LAW requires BLOOD in the redemption plan.
If that was the case, then why does the bible say this?:
22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
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Terry
The fact that this is not a "judgment" death, is proven because some who die, who did horrible things or rejected Jesus, for instance, will come back on Judgment Day, just to see what they missed, have their life reviewed and will then be thrown into the lake of fire to experience a permanent death, called "the second death ." So did their initial death erase their sins from their lives? No. Those sins will be held against them, and they will die by those sins. If they are righteous, they will live.
Dying is a penalty regardless of what you say.
Having to die is a judgement ALREADY DECREED upon Adam and his offspring!
Being raised from the dead in order to DIE YET AGAIN is nonsense! First death, second death, third death, yellow death, blue death, etc. is all Looney Tunes imagination.
We are talking about JUSTICE.
Justice is getting what you deserve.
If you deserve to die in the first place you pay for your "crimes" by dying.
Bring a condemned and executed prisoner brought back from the dead and THEN PRONOUNCING JUDGEMENT is a travesty of anything resembling JUSTICE.
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Terry
Missing link. There were other humans or hominids already here on earth when God placed Adam in the garden of Eden (also a metaphor). Adam was different in that he was more spiritual with a soul (God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man came to be a living soul). He was created in the likeness of his Father. There was none found among all that God created suitable as a mate for Adam. God provided a woman in the image of Adam for a help mate.
Eve partook of something forbidden and contaminated the pure blood and Adam followed suit. Based on God's just recompense law, he would have covered their mouths rather than their genitals had the "sin" been just disobeying a command not to eat of a certain fruit tree.
Is this "everbody make up a story" night?
Is this a writer's contest to see who has the most vivid imagination and can pass it off for fact?
You are asserting the existence of an unprovable SOUL and acting like you know what it is. A soul is an imaginary construct.
God is intangible. To be created in the "image" of a being who cannot be seen (lest you perish) is a comic touch indeed!
Adam's "pure blood" is exactly WHAT?
Are you a skinhead with Nazi theories about purity of blood? Where do you get these notions? You don't inherit your paren'ts blood!! You can be born with a blood type that matches neither of your parents. Or, don't you know that???
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Terry
doesnt the bible itself call jesus the greater adam....and that being the case, it says jesus was perfect in one way or another....
Either Jesus was a man...a human...or he wasn't.
He broke the Sabbath law by healing and got into trouble with the Jewish legal authorities who wanted to stone him in accordance with the law.
Either Jesus was a god or The God or he wasn't.
He received adoration, worship and forgave sins.
None of this has anything at all to do with the question which forms the Topic of this thread: DIVINE JUSTICE.
IF Jesus were a god or The God he was not equal to Adam unless Adam was a god or The God.
If Jesus PAID a price, then to WHOM did he pay the price of ransom?
To himself? To his father?
This makes the entire ritual of sacrifice a charade either way.
If Jesus is divine all he has to do is DECIDE to forgive and it is done. But, it isn't JUSTICE.
If God accepts the death of an innocent man and then forgives guilty men it isn't JUSTICE.
The only JUSTICE that is just is for guilty people to die and pay for their own crime.
The death of an innocent Jesus warps the very meaning of JUSTICE.
Nobody seems to be able to grasp this simple thought!
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journey-on
Is this a writer's contest to see who has the most vivid imagination and can pass it off for fact?
You are asserting the existence of an unprovable SOUL and acting like you know what it is. A soul is an imaginary construct.
God is intangible. To be created in the "image" of a being who cannot be seen (lest you perish) is a comic touch indeed!
Do I win?
Terry: It's hard to explain to someone like you. If you can't see it, hear it, touch it, smell it, taste it, or feel it, IT DOESN'T EXIST according to your viewpoint. Someone said in a post a few days ago (I can't remember who or which topic) that one's personal experiences provide the perspective for what you believe. I "know" there is an Intelligent Creative Force in the Universe just as you "know" there is not.
Does it matter? I don't know. But, from my life's journey so far, I believe it's important to seek the answers.
All I was saying in the above is that from a theological standpoint, an introduction into the pure blood of God's human son made in his likeness of a foreign contamination makes sense.