TO BARBARA ANDERSON: MY FOURTEEN YEAR OLD SON (page 5)

AnnOMaly

Hi deborah's-song

I do sense panic and a yearning for a 'quick-fix' in your post. I understand that and the feeling of desperation that your kids have a religiously stable environment and Christian association that is as close to your present beliefs as possible - a kind of repacement for JWs. Truth is, I don't think you'll get one. The Trinity is the dominant dogma in churches. And seeing as you feel uncomfortable with Unitarianism, the likelihood of finding a non-Trinitarian church in your locality is akin to finding teeth in a hen's beak.

You know, the more I look into what the Bible 'really' teaches, the more ambiguities I see with doctrines I previously thought were 'as clear as day.' I'm not Trinitarian - I'm not convinced of it scripturally, but I appreciate why people can come to that conclusion and that there are problems with Arianism. Don't make 'the Trinity' the criterien to judge a person's Christianity or the value of their faith. (Matt. 22:36-40; 1 Cor. 13:9-13). Anyway, regardless of what church or KH your kids attend, if you want them to have a Christian grounding, the primary place to do that is in the home. But naturally, at the age of 14, your son also needs to be given the freedom to form his own views of the Bible and its message.

My $0.02.

deborahs_song

serotonin_wraith,

Is it really possible for parents to in some degree not indoctrinate their children? Don't atheist parents influence their children to be atheists? Don't Catholic parents do the same? It is natural for parents to train their children as they believe. My husband and I believe that Jesus taught the worship of Jehovah not himself. We believe Jesus taught us to love our neighbor not to kill him in wars. Because we believe these teachings are good we try to instill them in our children. "Ophelia" is a young adult she will one day be on her own and free to make her own choices just as her older brother is but for now we are charged with the responsibility to do what we feel is best for our minor children.

deborahs_song

AnnOMaly,

Thank you for the advice. Panic does not even come close to what we are feeling. It's somewhere between the Titanic sinking and permanently Lost in Space. We don't want to leave our faith, but it seems our religious home is cracking and the first thing we've decided to do is investigate what is out there.

My husband and I appreciate your candor.

serotonin_wraith

serotonin_wraith,
Is it really possible for parents to in some degree not indoctrinate their children? Don't atheist parents influence their children to be atheists? Don't Catholic parents do the same? It is natural for parents to train their children as they believe. My husband and I believe that Jesus taught the worship of Jehovah not himself. We believe Jesus taught us to love our neighbor not to kill him in wars. Because we believe these teachings are good we try to instill them in our children. "Ophelia" is a young adult she will one day be on her own and free to make her own choices just as her older brother is but for now we are charged with the responsibility to do what we feel is best for our minor children.

I can't speak for all atheists, but I can speak for myself. As an atheist, I would never make my child think as I do. I would give them the free reign of all choices. Atheism, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Scientology, Mormon, Thor belief, Ra belief, etc etc etc. I would widen the selection considerably to encompass a wide range of beliefs. By teaching a child only one belief, we limit their choices.

I too believe treating people with kindness is the best way to act- however, I wouldn't need to teach them Jesus was born of a virgin to accomplish this. The 'golden rule' is a good one on its own without having to teach everything else the 'good book' has to offer as truth. One day she will be able to choose for herself, but there is no denying that teaching a young child your beliefs will influence their decision in a huge way. When she is old enough, she may feel she has to follow Jesus (as apparently has happened with you after your parents taught you their beliefs) or she may find it hard to think for herself because she'll be afraid of the eternal punishment your religion teaches. People don't suddenly start to form their own opinions at 18 or 21- they can be formed in childhood, and become extremely hard to shake off. Adulthood can bring about changes, but it all depends on how weak or strong the mind is.

deborahs_song

serotonin_wraith,

If you're an atheist I presume that's because you believe that to be the truth of our existence. Wouldn't you explain to your child what you yourself believe to be true? And in doing so wouldn't you then be influencing your child?

serotonin_wraith

Atheism isn't a belief as such, rather a lack of belief in a god. That's all it takes to be an atheist.

If you mean evolution and the real age of our universe, then I'm quite happy to let the schools teach my child that- I'm in the UK and here they teach that evolution is a fact, and that the universe is between 13 and 15 billion years old. Basically, reality. I do believe reality would be good enough for my child. Anything else... isn't real.

rebel8

Good morning Deborah,

OK, that makes sense about Barbara.

What do I think about the church issue? I'm no authority on parenting, but here's my opinion. I think your son having friends with good moral values and positive goals in life should be the focus.

In fact, I believe your son being exposed to different belief systems will enrich him. I have met some extremely sheltered adults (non-jws)who were not allowed to know people with different beliefs, cultures, races, etc., and they are, well, "socially disabled". Two that come to mind have severe trouble on their job because of being so ignorant, let alone being able to function independently in society. They have not developed into normal adults because of being sheltered so.

I had contact with people of many different religions while I was a jw and it certainly did not influence me to believe as they did--even now, I do not share their beliefs. It was not the indoctrination of the jws that made me decide what to believe, it was my critical analysis/logical thinking that did so.

In order to think critically about something, IMO, you have to understand all points of view.

I mean, we are not talking about having your son hang out with Satan worshipers and sacrifice babies. It is just the trinity. It is not immoral to believe in the trinity.

Yes, I do think that church membership does not require belief in the trinity or political involvement. At one time I joined a church and it was well known that I did not believe some of the basic teachings. I formally joined the church and the leaders encouraged critical thinking. to

If your son attends, he will be exposed to different ideas, just as he does when he goes to school or watches tv. It is then up to you to use that as a teaching moment to compare and contrast different points of view.

I think while your child is a minor, it is ok for you to tell him what you believe to be true about the nature of God and being involved in politics--as long as you realize that he may not end up sharing your beliefs, and you will love him anyway.

(( ))

deborahs_song

rebel8,

I read and reread your post. It makes sense in my head but my heart is screaming at me. A heart that has loved feeling "safe" is not one which easily rushes to unknown places. But if we leave I know that's what we will have to do and your post will be upper most in my mind.

Your advice is appreciated, thank you.

Junction-Guy

Wow, this whole "trinity" issue bugs me, why is that the most important aspect you seek for your children? You didnt even mention hellfire.

The majority of christiaity is trinitarian, I believe in the Trinity, but I wouldnt prevent my kids from associating with non-trinitarians, unless they were a cult.

You disagree with the unitarians because they joined the universalists, what about this do you not like?

It looks to me like you will never find a church you will agree with, you will always compre it to the JW's, you will always find something wrong with it.

Even I am open to the possibility of not fully agreeing with my own church, this is a freedom we have that is supported by 2 centuries of men and women willing to fight for those freedoms.

There are several groups that are non-trinitarian, if that is most important to you, then seek them out.

Right now you are in "no mans land" you cant accept the JW's fully, but you still view most churches with contempt-due to the Watchtower influences,

There are scriptures that both seem to support the trinity and those that dont.

Well I will stop here.

Dave

mkr32208

I thought an ilk was a big deer?

TO BARBARA ANDERSON: MY FOURTEEN YEAR OLD SON

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