You're welcome.
"A heart that has loved feeling "safe" is not one which easily rushes to unknown places. But if we leave I know that's what we will have to do"
Obviously you are understanding the psychological impact the jw religion has had on you--avoiding dealing with the fact that we can't be certain about a lot of things in life and have to just do our best, avoiding dealing with the fact that we as individuals are no more special than anyone else--these aspects of jw beliefs are unhealthy. We pay the psychological toll sooner or later for believing those things.
Realizing that is one of many steps towards healing.
Keep thinking and the healing will come.
TO BARBARA ANDERSON: MY FOURTEEN YEAR OLD SON
by deborahs_song 71 Replies latest jw friends
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rebel8
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fjtoth
I think it's a shame that this sincere woman is being almost condemned by some here because she's looking for a church that is non-Trinitarian. When I left JWs and was looking for a non-Trinitarian church, I was denounced by Trinitarian church members -- and a few pastors -- because I couldn't accept their view of God. With some exceptions, it seems a similar mindset prevails here.
In one instance, church members surrounded me, walked me toward the door, and almost pushed me out of the building. I didn't try to defend my beliefs. I merely said I was having a problem trying to accept the Trinity. But they wanted me to accept it right on the spot. Because I couldn't, they ridiculed me and told me I was not welcome in their church until I did. Something similar happened at an ex-JW meetup where everybody but me was Trinitarian.
There are non-Trinitarian churches around, but they're not easy to find. It depends upon where you live. Eventually I found one, and was quite happy there, until I had to move some distance away due to my job.
Except for JWs, I have found that non-Trinitarian congregations are more compassionate and understanding toward Trinitarians than Trinitarians generally are toward non-Trinitarians.
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PS to deborahs_song: I apologize for misjudging you in my earlier post.
Frank
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deborahs_song
fjtoth,
I'm not sure what we will end up doing but I do appreciate your encouraging words. My husband is struggling right now with so many stresses. He is an elder our older son is also an elder and both are hurting. Our family is under so much stress it is all we can do to just go to the meetings but my husband must also give parts at the meetings etc.
Whatever we do we will likely help our younger children to remain in the Organization until they reach an age where they can make their own choices. This to us seems to be the most balanced at this time. My husband is probably going to step down but remain for a while longer.
This should not be, but it is what it is and we are devastated over it.
I still declare my love for Jehovah and his son and the brothers and sisters in my faith!
Deborah
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Scully
Whatever we do we will likely help our younger children to remain in the Organization until they reach an age where they can make their own choices.
And what if their choice, at that point in time, is to follow the Organization's directives to shun you for being "apostates"?
Please think about that possibility very carefully before you set out to do that.
Could you simply start missing meetings, gradually becoming inactive as a family? Start taking up alternative activities with your younger children? Are you in a position to move to a different area outside your current congregation's territory, so your family can have somewhat of a fresh start?
Those are some of the things that seem to work for a lot of families who find that they have matured spiritually to the point that the Organization is no longer needed to guide their decision making.
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GentlyFeral
Deborahs_song, I do believe JunctionGuy is right:
You didnt even mention hellfire.
Hellfire is by far a more pernicious doctrine than the Trinity ever was or could be! To quote JunctionGuy again:
You disagree with the unitarians because they joined the universalists, what about this do you not like?
Outside the fundamentalist churches, hellfire is no longer taken literally, or even very seriously. True, the Catholics still believe in eternal punishment after death, but this takes the form of keen, eternal awareness of separation from God (the source of all blessings and happiness) -- in short, the sober awareness that one will never be happy or content again. It's much more important to safeguard your children from that kind of brain-twisting. Hellfire is an immoral doctrine. But, having been a Jehovah's Witness, you know that. It is almost the only thing they got right, in my estimation.
You said, most cogently:
A heart that has loved feeling "safe" is not one which easily rushes to unknown places. But if we leave I know that's what we will have to do
I had to deal with this when I left. I was lucky, I guess: I soon came to the conclusion that it was perfectly all right to "fly blind" for a while. The World™ is so vast and so varied that nothing that we have clung to for safety or happiness is unique. There are other sources of safety out there; there are other sources of strength; there are thousands, no, millions of others who understand the golden rule and -- unlike the Witnesses -- suffer no restrictions in living by it. Thousands, millions, of good friends await your arrival.
And they are scattered throughout all the world's churches -- and even outside them all.
fjtoth says:
Except for JWs, I have found that non-Trinitarian congregations are more compassionate and understanding toward Trinitarians than Trinitarians generally are toward non-Trinitarians.
Yes, but in my experience they tend to be either Unitarian Universalist or United Church of Christ (the joke goes that "UCC" stands for Unitarians Considering Christ :-)) Seriously, I am not aware of any denominations which are both non-Trinitarian and doctrinally conservative, which seems to be what you are looking for, if I have read you correctly.
gently feral
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choosing life
What's wrong with universal salvation? Do some need to be destroyed for the rest of us to ok? What if God could save all his children? Wouldn't you if you had the chance, save all of your children I mean? Would that make God successful or a failure?
How about us? I like to think I will always be able to reach my children's hearts someway.
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deborahs_song
Scully,
My husband is well known in the District, he has at times filled in for the Circuit Overseer. My parents and my husband's parents are active Jehovah's Witnesses. To keep our entire family somewhat intact my husband is considering a slow process in which both for the benefit of the children and our parents we continue as is for a time probably at least 5 years. Our parents are elderly and we could not bear to hurt them at this time in their lives.
You mention the possibility of our children shunning us, they would only have to shun us if we left officially. A few years of slowing down will I hope open the way to no shunning. We have no intention of officially leaving the Organization, that is not an option.
I really can't believe I'm saying this. On Sunday I'll go to the meeting, hug my friends and hope that things change. Hope that the Governing Body wakes up. Hope that Jehovah corrects them.
Thank you for the advice,
Deborah
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choosing life
Deborah's Song,
What exactly is bothering you so much about the organization?
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fjtoth
GentlyFeral,
Yes, but in my experience they tend to be either Unitarian Universalist or United Church of Christ (the joke goes that "UCC" stands for Unitarians Considering Christ :-)) Seriously, I am not aware of any denominations which are both non-Trinitarian and doctrinally conservative, which seems to be what you are looking for, if I have read you correctly.
The church I attended was originally Baptist and became independent when the congregation voted on whether to continue with the Trinity or not. They also gave up hell-fire and some other Baptist doctrines. There are other congregations now doing the same, especially some that formerly belonged or still belong to the Church of Christ (not United Church of Christ). Some non-Trinitarians have formed "house churches." Check out also the Church of God General Conference. There is also a denomination of very fine Christian people called Christian Millennial Fellowship. My experience with some of these groups is that they really care for one another, and though they are non-Trinitarian, their emphasis is more on Christian living than on doctrines.
Frank -
deborahs_song
Choosing Life,
The last 20 years have been a run towards no spirit in the Organization. It is drying up. The friends are drying up with it.
The times are changing but the Governing Body seems to be in the dark and is only able to repeat what has been printed before over and over again until it hurts us to read it.
The 15 minute publisher and the 30 minute public talk are only the tip of the iceberg. In our hall attendance is way down and the talks at the School and Service meetings are perfunctory and no longer alive. The Circuit Overseer might as well not be there he is only interested in correcting and not loving the friends. I could go on and on about that.
Do you know how many times we studied the Greatest Man book or the Revelation book? The changes that came in the 1990's were a trial as well as the constant harping on how wonderful the Governing Body is and how we should all be so grateful for them. Now we are to give loving acceptance to those who partake of the emblems when in former times my husband was required to "lovingly" discourage them.
New Kingdom Halls are not what they were neat, clean and presentable places to meet. No, now they are little estates with manicured lawns etc. What all that has to do with the Kingdom and the Good News escapes me since Jesus did not need a fancy structure to teach his disciples in.
Those are a few of the things that have caused us tension and worry but the greatest things are the false representations. My husband and I have come to realize that if the Governing Body were truly anointed, if they were truly brothers of Christ, they would not treat us as they have. They would not trample on Jehovah's name as they have and they would not be so controlling as they have been. We have agreed to the sad fact that we are being led not by anointed but by non anointed men.
There is no Paul or John among them there is no loving brother of Christ among them.
Deborah