Do you suffer from RELIGIOUS HYPOCHONDRIA???

by Terry 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  journey-on

  Questions, Terry:

  Are you only talking about religion's interpretation of God?

  What about people like me that believe in God as the Creative Energy that produced space and matter and continues to evolve intelligently interacting with its own creation? I'm looking to both Science (man) and God to eventually answer these questions.

  I'm not sure exactly where I fit into the argument? If I don't, then I'll bow out of this discussion. I'd just like to know where you think people with the same view as me fit it?
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  Anti-Christ

  Says who?, this is a religious statement, which is unprovable in any means, as we live in a material universe. Science can actually answer this question easily, there is NO evidence for life after death, nothing has been observed or recording showing anything leaves the body at death.

  Dude, that's what I meant, there is no evidence that something leaves the body wen you die and there never will be, so to claim that there is, it's purely religious, faith that's what it is, believing in something you can not see our prove scientifically. Science has proven that wen you die that's it and that's what I believe but if someone wants to believe in an after life, sure why not, but don't wait on science to prove it.
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  wherehasmyhairgone

  It seems to me that many who post here think religion is the big evil. As far as I'm concerned, human nature being what it is, some charlatan will come along and prey on those with problems in any case. If they don't do it in the name of religion, it will be politics, pseudo science or medicine or something else.

  I actually agree with you .

  The only point i will make is the other stands you mention ( politics etc) is something that can be debated out, but when you have someone claiming their are doing the will of an almighty God, you have little to debate on.

  As long as we fuel human nature will the idea that somehow some almighty god is talking to them and more importantly talking these people seriously, then religion is a big evil.

  And on a side side the other reason i subscribe to this way of thinking is the effect it has on children. Now being a JW board i will not mention no JW related issues of how children are brought up, but JW teach their children that certain lifestyles are wrong and discriminate on that basis alone. Also the JW religion are willing and bearing mind go to court to allow a religious belief rather than blood related medical treatments for their children.

  And more importantly restrict their children access to science based information, rejecting evolution on evidence grounds fair enough, you have research it yourself, rejecting evolution on religious grounds is breeding ignorance.

  steve
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  Effervescent

  I guess what I didn't make myself clear enough on is my issue with this post has nothing to do at all with a Christian vs. Athiest argument. I get soooo tired of rearing.... "Oh, you have a problem with what I say??? You must have a problem with your faith/reading ability/cognitive skills/conscience/etc etc etc".

  I totally respect the athiest point of view. Most days I don't know what I believe. I do generally describe myself as Christian, although as I said, most of the time it's more just a search for my own personal truth.

  That being said, I also sincerely respect your right to have your point of view, and have in the past taken quite an interests in your posts. But I find them more and more inflammatory and designed specifically to covertly or overtly insult people. If this is your method of striking up a lively discussion, I don't think it does you any justice. I think you might find an appreciation for diversity and respect for other's opinions might draw more people to the debate, rather than just those who happen to agree.

  But then again, that's just *my* opinion... for whatever it's worth....
• 

  JamesThomas

  Journey:

  Are you only talking about religion's interpretation of God?

  What about people like me that believe in God as the Creative Energy that produced space and matter and continues to evolve intelligently interacting with its own creation?

  I certainly can not answer for Terry, but if you don't mind here is my take on your situation.

  Religious interpretations and beliefs in a god are -- upon inspection -- only mental constructs to which we come to identify and become addicted, and which have no basis in reality. They are stories and imagery passed down to us from someone else's imagination. Does this make sense? Can you actually see this?

  You openly confess that you now embrace beliefs and interpritations of a "God" far larger than the Biblical interpretation. Have we not just traded one illusory interpretation and belief for another? The names have changed, the story line has changed some, but the fiction remains the same.

  The mind is a wondrous and powerful tool. However, when we allow it to determine and conceptually create our most foundational significance and reality, we are left holding no reality at all; only more beliefs. Such endeavors are a misuse of the mind.

  There is another way.

  j
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  RAF

  while everything you said makes sense JT ... you are mixing things here somehow ...

  Is it that you feel that people should forget about the bible or any book or someone else's view on the matter but reality? (I'm ok with that)

  But now about reality : it is still their reality, from their experiences (do you have everybodies experiences? to state that a belief which look like something you haven't in your experience is not real?
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  poppers

  From RAF: "But now about reality : it is still their reality, from their experiences (do you have everybodies experiences? to state that a belief which look like something you haven't in your experience is not real?"
  
  Not to take words out of JT's mouth, I would ask this: Is it really their REALITY or is it what they THINK is their reality? There is a difference, and that difference is a major one. Most people live their lives as though what is in their mind is real and they then create an identity out of that. What JT is trying to get across is to question this mind based "reality" and see if in fact if it is real. What is found following such an investigation can change one's entire relationship with others and how life is experienced. Life isn't what you think it is.
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  RAF

  Poppers : Is it really their REALITY or is it what they THINK is their reality? There is a difference, and that difference is a major one

  Yes there is a big difference ... and that's the whole thing ... when it's about experiences ... there are things that I've experience alone and then I can still think : was this about my imagination, coincidences or what ? ... But there are things that WE (my familly) have experienced together (visual - and effective) ... then you can't deny it's about reality ... And if you have not experienced that, you can't accept that as a reality ... And when you have experienced it you can't deny it ... (what would good in lying to myself?)
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  journey-on

  J.T.

  Maybe I should start another thread rather than interrupt this one, but I'm getting ready to go out of town later and will be gone five days and won't have time to follow up with any replies. So, if Terry will indulge me for the moment, I'll give my reply to your answer.

  God may be the wrong word. There has come to be almost a reflex reaction to the mention of God that stirs up a revulsion in the minds of rabid atheists. Maybe we need to redefine what creator means. It seems to be difficult for an atheist to get past the old vision of what He has been represented by in the past and still does to some people.

  Creation happened...period, i.e. Space and Matter came to be. At some point there was ONLY a point. What it was and what its nature was, science cannot explain. But it was divine (super human..magnificent..god-like...unknowable). Big Bang! As matter coalesced, it evolved "intelligently".

  Now, my problem with "the other side" (whatever that is) is this: I've read, studied, observed pictures real and simulated of the cosmos. I am not an astrophysicist, but I know enough to know that our universe is so dynamic and vast that our solar system with its huge sun is a tiny speck upon another tiny speck---barely a blip on the cosmos radar. In this vastness, our Earth is practically invisible. There are stars that we know of that are 100 times as massive as our sun and 10,000,000 times brighter. These are just the ones we know of.

  The things our science doesn't know are so much more than what we do know. By turning a blind eye to the "creator" of this universe, we are cutting ourselves short. Is our creator an entity like us only invisible? No..I doubt that. But, supposedly, all matter including man is made of the same "stuff" as the universe. (How we know this for a 100% certainty is beyond me...our science is so small and incomplete, but nevertheless, "they" say...) If we are all made of the same stuff, then it stands to reason we contain within ourselves part of what GOD is...like DNA for a lack of a better analogy. We ARE His image. We ARE evolving intelligently toward SOMETHING.

  If we throw away our father because of the puny vain attempts at religion to explain Him, then we are making a serious error in my judgement. Throw away the old concept of God...YES. Throw away religion with its narrow-minded doctrines...YES. But don't throw away GOD. As we evolve physically, socially, and spiritually, THERE WILL BE NEW DEFINITIONS.

  IMO, atheists put way too much stock in physical science. And if you stand back and look how SMALL our science is, you've got to stay open to the fact that there is more to creation and its evolution than can be explained by our tiny scientific knowledge.

  Maybe I'm just in a different ring altogther in this fight....either/or, neither/nor.
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  poppers

  RAF - where is life? Is it not right here NOW? Where is attention? Is it here right NOW or is it taken up with what is in the mind, ruminating over events that have ended or are yet to come? Find out what happens when attention is absorbed in life as it is right now, not the traces of life that flow when the synapses of the brain are recreating fromer events. This is not to dismiss those events but to not let those events obscure the freshness of life as it actually is unfolding before you in this very moment. Most people are living lives based on memory and projection of mind into a future fantasy and completely miss what's actually real right before them. Devoid of analysis, judgment, and label what is here right now? That's reality.