CONVERSATION WITH MY JW SISTER LAST NIGHT......

by Mary 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mary
    Mary

    Well I guess this was a long time in coming, but yesterday afternoon, my family all got together and had a bbq at my parents' home. When my parents left at around 6:00pm to drive my one non-Dub sister home, my other sister and brother in law (former elder), stayed for a while longer.

    We've never discussed my leaving 'the Truth' a couple of years ago but she brought it up last night and we started talking about the religion. Everyone had been drinking but no one was drunk, so alot got said. She said she was concerned that I had stopped going and that I should really consider going back because I had a lot of friends there, and that I shouldn't 'let [myself] become so bitter' etc. etc. I told her that I had no intention of going back and tried explaining why. I told her that yes, I was bitter because I discovered that we had been lied to for years about all kinds of stuff.

    She feels that, while they've made alot of mistakes, the bottom line is that she thinks Jehovah is saying 'will you remain faithful to me no matter what' and that's why she continues to go. I told her there is nothing that indicates at all that Jehovah is using this Organization or any organization. She replied that He's "always worked through an Organization". I said "Bullshit. What about Moses, Noah, Isaac, Abel, Elijah, Elisha, Jacob or Joseph? None of these men belonged to any 'Organization'---Jehovah worked through them as individuals. As per usual, when talking to a Witness, the topics went all over the place. The frustrating thing about talking to my sister, is that she KNOWS alot of their doctrines are bullshit. She's never believed that she'd be in the New System of Things instead of dying, she doesn't believe Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and doesn't give a rat's ass about their stupid things like beards.

    At one point she said 'well, show me another religion that's better or that gives us the hope of seeing [our 3 siblings that died while all young] again." I said "for god's sake, every religion---even Islam, offers their followers the hope of seeing dead relatives again---Witnesses certainly don't have the monopoly on that!" She then went on about how the first century Christians were "united" or "organized" to preach. I told her that they also did charity work that the Witnesses don't do. I also asked her to please point me to a scripture that says they met for 5 frigging meetings a week and had to turn in a report as to how many hours they spent preaching, or how many scrolls they placed. I said "this is just another man made rule that they've put out there". She acknowledged that Rutherford was a drunken asshole and I told her about him sending a letter to either Hitler or one of his top henchment telling them how the Society has nothing to do with the Jews and how they stand for the same "high moral principles" as the Third Reich. She was disgusted but believed me. We then talked more about the heavy burdens they put on everyone and I said "they're worse that the Pharisees. How would you feel if you had 3 kids, had to work full time and had to do all the shit they tell you you're supposed to be doing? You'd have a nervous breakdown trying to do all that for god's sake." I then said "The Society has become the very evil that they've been preaching about for decades."

    We then talked a bit about the pedophile problem. For some reason, she simply cannot get her mind around the idea that Witnesses who had been molested by fellow Christians, and who reported it to the police and spoke to Dateline, were DF'd for that and that alone. She still says "there's got to be more to it then that." I said "You didn't have a problem believing Dateline when they exposed the problem the Catholic Church was having, did you?" I told her about the recent settlement the WTS is involved in and told her I could get copies of the court case proving there was a cover up. She's very interested in seeing these papers. Oh man, I can't wait for Barbara Anderson's CD to get here!!! She also doesn't believe that the Society tells you that only those who were baptized before 1935 should take the emblems at the Memorial. I've got to get those links that talk about how many tens of thousands of Christians were martyred before the end of the 2nd century CE, and how the whole 1935 stuff is pure bullshit.

    I can't remember all what was said, but I actually find it more difficult talking to her because she KNOWS alot of their teachings are bullshit, yet she still goes! I asked her at the end "If someone could prove to you that this wasn't The Truth, would you still continue to go?" She said "No."

    What do you think is the best area I can focus on? As I've already mentioned, forget 1914----she's never believed that and she well remembers the whole 1975 fiasco, as she had numerous arguments with our father about it at that time----he believed it was coming in '75, she didn't.

    I'm considering at one point, depending on how our next conversation goes, giving her CoC to read. I know what you're thinking, but don't worry----she's not going to turn me in. She said that last night and I know she wouldn't. If the assholes ever tried making her choose between me and the religion, she'd chose me---I know that for a fact. But oh man, I would love to be able to her her and my brother in law out of that shit hole of a religion.

    Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  • Prins Vaillant
    Prins Vaillant

    Thanks for sharing your story. I found your arguments very impressing. My father also is still in, but I don't have the luck to have a decent conversation with him. His mind is way too closed. Keep up planting seeds of doubt in your sister's heart. God will do the rest. ;-)

  • AlphaOmega
    AlphaOmega
    or how many scrolls they placed.

    EXCELLENT !!!

    As to where to go from here... God only knows. I am also debating with a JW that doesn't believe many of the teachings. It is like banging your head on a wall !

    Maybe ask her why she stays in Dubland ?

    If it's for the "brotherly love", maybe showing her that it exsists outside of Dubland may help.

    That is what I am trying - showing that the world outside the KH is not the same as JWs have been led to believe.

    Any help ?

    AO

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    I agree with AO on the brotherly love angle, especially since your sister is more loyal to you than to the bOrg. There must be a reason for that, Mary. Maybe she silently agrees that there is a lack of love in the bOrg. How does she actually view the disfellowshipping angle? Brotherly love and the lack of it might be a very good starting point.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Mary said:

    "Everyone had been drinking but no one was drunk, so alot got said. "

    I think there's a lot to be said for a little booze before trying to "awaken" a witness.

    I'm gonna tuck that away as a good future strategy. I'll just make sure I haven't imbibed too much "truth serum" myself.

    I know you said your sister won't rat you out, but are you SURE? It's not just the booze talking is it?

    I'd be pretty frustrated if I were you. Here's a thought. How about the whole "everybody's gonna die at Armageddon" thing?

    Where does she weigh in on that one? If 6 billion are gonna die, I don't wanna worship Jehovah. If only the axe-murderers are gonna die (and not even all of them) then what's the big deal about being in "Da Troof"? Where's the urgency and importance?

    Just a thought.

    I'll have a drink in your honor tonight Mary.

    Open Mind

  • poppers
    poppers

    If she didn't believe some of those things you mentioned, ask her why she didn't question the society about it openly? If knowing that she'd get disfellowshipped for such thinking, what does that say about the society and as well as HER to continue as she has? Can she not see how the sword of fear that keeps her bound is not worth defending?

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    ...tearing myself away from the Anderson CD here...when your sister sees this evidence, it will be very hard to believe that this organization has God's blessing in any way...it is disgusting...sickening...and I'm less than halfway through the first case...it makes you so angry you want to cry...

  • Vinny
    Vinny

    There is only so much that you can do without drowning her with it. Can you e-mail her websites? There are numerous oustanding stories from former JW's, Bethelites, CO's, Gildead grads, pioneers, elders etc etc. These personal accounts were what got the ball rolling with my wife. At one point, she started e-mailing ME with experiences from people who left.


    But aside from that, the absolute must have gift from you to her would be Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Buy them both for her and hand deliver. There is nothing that you, or I, or anybody else for that matter could say that would be more effective at blowing the WT Society's cover than those two books. Once she even starts the reading she will be hooked and on her way out.


    Only after she is into those writings would I start adding other sites such as here.


    This website was a very effective one for me. Very balanced, non sarcastic writing style:

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index.htm


    Of course you have the blood and fractions mess to bring up. All of the false, missed predictions, the forbidding of vaccinations, organ transplants, alternative service. You have Rape rules about resisting, no grounds for terminating the marriage if spouse had sex with animals or sex with the opposite sex. You have the Beth Sarim embarrassment, 607 proven false, the UN/WTS relationship. You have today's current unscriptural policies like shunning for those that just disagree with any current JW tecahings, or having to shun those that simply disassociate without sinning. Nowhere found in the scriptures. Beards, no birthdays, no holidays, can't vote etc etc none of which is in the bible... you know the drill.


    The fact she is willing to examine is the single most important step towards a JW leaving the WT Society from my own experiences. Most will never go that far. Those two books is really very likely all it will take. Though I would also not be too surprised if she completely changes her mind after a few days away from you. All those lessons on apostasy and avoiding anything critical of the JW's tend to kick in at some point. I would order my books right now! Good luck Mary.

    vinny

  • Mary
    Mary
    I agree with AO on the brotherly love angle, especially since your sister is more loyal to you than to the bOrg. There must be a reason for that, Mary. Maybe she silently agrees that there is a lack of love in the bOrg.

    Hmmm....not that I know of. My sister's a social butterfly, has prominence, position, and popularity and is invited everywhere. However, she still feels that blood is thicker than water and would chose her family if push came to shove.

    Openmind said: I know you said your sister won't rat you out, but are you SURE? It's not just the booze talking is it?

    Nope. She won't rat me out. I know that for a fact.

    I'd be pretty frustrated if I were you. Here's a thought. How about the whole "everybody's gonna die at Armageddon" thing?

    We didn't get into that....I'll bring that one up next time.

    If she didn't believe some of those things you mentioned, ask her why she didn't question the society about it openly? If knowing that she'd get disfellowshipped for such thinking, what does that say about the society and as well as HER to continue as she has?

    We talked about that a bit. I said to her "...If you told the elders openly that you don't believe Jesus returned in 1914, you'd get DF'd." She realizes that and even used the word "control" and I said "you're absolutely right. They're a bunch of control freaks."

    ...tearing myself away from the Anderson CD here...when your sister sees this evidence, it will be very hard to believe that this organization has God's blessing in any way...it is disgusting...sickening

    Good! That's what I want her to see: the disgusting, hypocritical crap that goes on behind closed doors. I'm not sure if she'd be willing to read Crisis of Conscience right now.....I think I have to try and plant some more doubts in her mind and make her think.

  • BFD
    BFD

    Mary,

    I think it's great that she is willing to talk about things. If you can't wake her up, nobody can. She is lucky to have a sister like you.

    BFD

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