When God created Adm, did he knw that Adam wd sin?

D wiltshire

When God created Adam and Eve Did He Foreknow That They Would Sin?

This is taken from the Reasoning book:

When God created Adam, did he know that Adam would sin?
Here is what God set before Adam and Eve: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” “And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” (Gen. 1:28; 2:16, 17) Would you encourage your children to undertake a project with a marvelous future, knowing from the start that it was doomed to failure? Would you warn them of harm, while knowing that you had planned everything so that they were sure to come to grief? Is it reasonable, then, to attribute such to God?
Matt. 7:11: “If you, although being wicked [or, “bad as you are,” NE], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”
If God foreordained and foreknew Adam’s sin and all that would result from this, it would mean that by creating Adam, God deliberately set in motion all the wickedness committed in human history. He would be the Source of all the wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease. But the Bible clearly says: “You are not a God taking delight in wickedness.” (Ps. 5:4) “Anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.” (Ps. 11:5) “God . . . cannot lie.” (Titus 1:2) “From oppression and from violence he [the One designated by God as Messianic King] will redeem their soul, and their blood will be precious in his eyes.” (Ps. 72:14) “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) “He is a lover of righteousness and justice.”—Ps. 33:5.

Does this make 100% sense to anyone?

Sorry for the cut and paste but this is a good topic and I thought this would be a good way to start it.
There is a lot more in the Reasoning book on fate but this is good for now to start a little discussion.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

JanH

DW,

I guess what the WTS says on this is "common sensish" enough as far as it goes. JWs don't believe in predestination (some rhetoric sounds almost like they do, though).

The hole in the argument, which I have never seen them try to tackle, is that it only works if God could not know the outcome of the test.

I have seen elsewhere that the WTS asserts that since God chose to not "look in his crystal ball", so to say, Adam & Eve had a free will. But that is not a sound argument. If I have a note in my pocket, which I choose not to look at, telling exactly what you will do tomorrow, it follows that your entire course for that day is fixed, predetermined, whether I chose to look at that note or not. It is the same with God: if there is any possibility for looking into the future and learning exactly what will happen, then the future is predetermined.

- Jan
--
"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

D wiltshire

Jan,

That is very sound reasoning IMHO.

Yes they take an either: it's this, or it's that,...with nothing in between.

Totally black or white reasoning.
Thanks for the in between.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Introspection

D,

So what do you think?

D wiltshire

Intro,

I think you know my answer already.
Look at my profile signature below.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Introspection

D, I had an idea. :) But in light of this reasoning, it kind of implies that either God OR we are real. But one idea I find interesting is that there is a distinction but not a separation, (between human beings and God) which would allow room for both.

D wiltshire

I feel the Knowledge of whether God foreknew or not is unattainable from deduction.

I feel the Only one that can answer that question with any credence is the Almighty himself.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Introspection

I hear ya friend. Of course, that being the case it wouldn't matter how we feel would it? But I do understand what you're saying.

D wiltshire

Intro,

Regards:

I hear ya friend. Of course, that being the case it wouldn't matter how we feel would it?

Yes it matters what we feel very much. It to a large extent effect us in many ways.
Not saying who's right or wrong.
I just want to see what other people think, maybe someone will say something that will make me think.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Introspection

I just want to see what other people think, maybe someone will say something that will make me think.

lol, I guess I'm not doing a very good job. If you want though we can discuss this in email so as to allow other thoughts here. As Jan pointed out it does put free will out there, and the issue of omniscience and omnipotence is all related to this question.

"Living your life is a task so difficult, it has never been attempted before."

When God created Adm, did he knw that Adam wd sin?

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