When God created Adm, did he knw that Adam wd sin? (page 5)

Hairy Harr

Here's the way I heard it came about. God created Man. Man screwed up and sinned. Satan called into question Man's right and ability to rule himself without God's help...and since the Angels were looking on God decided to prove his point. That is: Man cannot rule himself with out screwing up. So he decided to allow millineums of misery for innocent people thruout the ages to suffer because His first Human Creation in the Garden messed up. Now, logically, if you had a child who you caught smoking or worse, is this the way you would punish him and his children and childrens's children?? Maybe that is the correct way to act since we were created in his image. No, we've been logically taught to punish immediately no matter who's looking on. Don't you think that it would have made a great impression on those Angels watching if Jehovah had made crispy critters outa Adam, Eve, Satan, Angels with impure thoughts, snakes in general, etc, etc, right then and there? A fresh start and viola! generations of perfect humans instead of thousands of years and billions of suffering, cluesless humans....that is if you believe any of this crap to begin with. Let's remember that the Org is the one that taught us to think "rationally", that's why we really don't believe there is a center of the earth filled with sinners with heat rash!! But as you already know, what is "rational" with the Org can become irrational at the blink of an eye. (I hope this made sense...it's something that has always bothered me as well as the predetermination)
I used to ask if we didn't get to everyone before Big "A" would those not preached to get destroyed? "No", I was told, "God knows their heart condition." The why go door to door at all? I would get something about proving yourself to God...Yes but he already knows my heart & that I love him ...and this could on and on. Thanks for letting me vent. The more I learn the less I know.

Rex B13

Here exactly is what I mean, Shelby:

>A few weeks ago, my Lord prompted me to ask of you just what it was that God wanted from us. And he permitted to make a reply. He has now directed me to speak to you on just what it IS that makes us 'bad'... in the eyes of God. Is it 'sin', as in the weakness and error of the flesh? No, for we were 'sold' into such 'sin' and 'error'. My Father wells knows that. It is disobedience, in and of itself? No, for my Father knows that we are 'dust' and that the flesh is at enmity with the spirit, so that there is always a 'battle'.

You are not unlike the Watchtower with your arrogant assumption that people will see YOU as some kind of prophet, then you reply with patently obvious points that require no insight......
YOU decided to reply, God did not PROMPT you to do anything.
Sheesh. You also still use the '' too much!
Rex

D wiltshire

Lots of food for thought here!
Again thank you to all posters.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Lolieworm

This question was always answered to me this way...

"God could have seen into the future to see what would happen but chose not to".

That sounds as stupid as not looking before merging on to a highway.

funkyderek

Rex,

Why would a perfect loving god create beings whose natural state is one of "total depravity" and then punish them for it. In the Calvinistic view, God chose to create beings whom he knew he would punish for all eternity. What kind of sadistic bastard do you worship, Rex?

--
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire

Undecided

Hi,

What bothers me about this matter of the test is another of God's creation went bad before man. The Devil was the influence that caused Eve to go bad.(According to the legend) What would happen if the Devil realized his mistake and pleaded for forgiveness and tried to preach to all his fallen brothers?

With humans the first pair failed, so all following humans were flawed. With angels there was no genetic tendency to sin, they all chose that course individually, legions of them. What does this show us about free will and God's creative success? It doesn't look too good for the ones who become perfect in the future heaven or earth(depending on your religious faith as to where you will be).

What caused the flaw to occur in the spirit world, why did some fail and others remain faithful? Could others fail in the future and start another wickedness spree? Will God stop freewill so it won't happen again?

None of this madness makes any sense to my feeble brain. Please GOD, I need help that I can understand.

Ken P.

Sirona

Hi Intro,

Here's a thought.. Rather than viewing part of the duality as bad, what if duality itself is what is "bad" ? Anyways, I guess it's really another subject

I dont think that part of duality is "bad" as such. I accept the bad as necessary. I can't see how duality itself could be bad - Im not sure if you mean the fact it exists is bad or that people believe it exists is bad.

I just cant see there being a world where there is no negative. E.g. the negative is often what challenges us and pushes us to change things. Thats just one example.

Sirona

RunningMan

The situation creates a paradox:

If God is all-knowing, then he must have known that Adam would sin.

If God knew that Adam would sin, then God is responsible for all of the sin and suffering
in the world. Since God is love, this is not possible.

Whenever you have a paradox, you should always check your assumption.
The primary assumption in this case is that God exists.

The answer is really quite simple: There is no God.

So, the argument about what he does and does not know, or what he can and
cannot do, is irrelevant.

Abaddon

I love this!

Rex attacking Shelby!

Talk about cooking impliments exchanging comments on their degree of carbonisation!

Rex, Shelby may be a nut, but you're an unpleasent nut!

Go Shelby!!

Keep on rocking in the free world...

Moxy

heres another problem i have that i havent heard expressed before.

how is it that god proves his way his right? this is often compared to a court case where two sides meet and consider the evidence. but where is the other side? nobody's heard the devils side of things. weve only heard what the bible SAYS his side of things is, namely, he is pure evil all the time, just blind raging evil. how do we know this is an accurate portrayal of him and the issues being raised? this is like the prosecuting attorney coming into court and presenting his opponenet's arguments for him. and when the portrayal of his opponent is one of absolute extreme cartoonish evil, we naturally wonder if there is some exaggeration.

so we just have to trust god, is that what you say? well if we cant trust god, who can we trust, eh? but thats the whole premise of the 'issue of sovereignty' doctrine, we CAN'T trust god. if we could trust him, why couldn't he just say 'trust me - my way is best' from the beginning? but apparently we can't trust him, so he has allowed the issue to play out. why have the farce of a trial if only one side is presenting all the evidence and arguments? if we COULD trust that side to fairly present the full case, why did we need the trial in the first place?

mox

When God created Adm, did he knw that Adam wd sin?

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