The fade is over, talked to my parents last night. (very very long)

Paralipomenon

There would never be a good time to have this conversation. Quite different from most people raised a Witness, I have very few horror stories about my upbringing. My family was just a family, my mom and dad fought and argued, my siblings and I misbehaved and got in trouble.

For discipline we were spanked with a small stick, that while it did hurt, was only administered to our bottoms, I wasn't verballed berated for physically or sexually abused. As I got older, my parents encouraged me to get an education but never once did I feel that they were compromising their standards. We never missed a meeting, even on vacations and had 1-2 family studies each week.

I wish there was something I could get angry about, it would make it so much easier. I wish my parents were horrible people so this would have been easier, but that is a selfish wish.

If anything, people could look at our family and say that we were an example of how to balance witnessesing and family.

My parents live less than 10 minutes away and last night I found myself right up by their house on an errand. I told myself that there would never bee a "good" time so I veered from my way home and headed to their house. I go in and my mother is on the phone. She is offering encouragement to one of her bible studies late at night. This would not be fun. I told my dad that I had something serious to talk to them about, but we were waiting for my mother to get off the phone.

After a while I just started. Immediately I saw the defensive wall fly up on my dad. He was very dissappointed and was trying to strike a balance between feigning disinterest and expressing his feelings. He would shrug and make off handed comments, rather than try to really listen. While an incredibly intelligent and strong man, he doesn't like conflict so he was out of his element. It was very difficult, he wanted to hear my reasonings, to refute them, but didn't want to take the time to really listen.

Shortly my mother came out to join us and looked happy to see me. She came over, gave me hug and asked if anything was wrong. I gave her a big hug and said that I was going to break her heart. She tensed up.

My father said "He's not getting divorced or anything like that, they just don't want to be witnesses anymore. We already knew that, they haven't been doing anything for years" This was the type of comments my dad would make, trying to sound like he didn't care, but making sure to get jab in.

My mother smiled sat down and asked me to explain it to her. My sister had left years ago and my mother regretted not taking the time to understand her motivations. It was completely opposite to how I felt it would go. I thought my dad would be reasonable an my mother upset.

So we went into it, everything. I remarked to my wife later that it was like attacking with a sponge. I would make a deep point, but as soon as I was done, it would be right back to the way it was. It was obvious how little they knew.

I discussed the UN membership scandal. They hadn't heard anything about it. I filled them in all the details and it was very interesting but nothing faith shattering.

I discussed the child abuse lawsuits, this met with complete rejection. The was a problem, but the society addressed it. I mentioned how they would cover up abuse, how pedophiles were free to move from congregation to congregation with their records wiped. This was outright dismissed.

I discussed 607 and it was very interesting, they hadn't heard anything like that. Since the 1914 generation teaching was no longer applicable, it shouldn't affect their current faith.

I discussed blood that was met with nodding heads that the policy has changed, but they didn't want blood anyways, so it didn't matter if fractions were allowed or not.

I discussed apostasy in the first century congregation and they admitted that the organization lost Jehovah's blessing, they even admitted that it could happen to witnesses too.

I discussed the flip flops and that was attributed to the light getting brighter, I brought up CTR's comment about new light not extinguishing old light and my mom said that CTR was just a man, the bible says the light gets brighter, it doesn't say that old light shouldn't go out.

I discussed hiding their past, and disfellowshipping those that questioned changing doctrine. This was agreed to, my mother said there are major items she doesn't believe in, but she's going to be patient and wait for them to correct them. I tried to stress that a changing message implied human, not godly reasoning and she just thought that anyone that steps out of line would have to answer to Jehovah.

It was infuriating. I felt like a was playing tennis and delivering perfect shot after perfect shot, but rather than try to volley them back, they just were standing there remarking on what a great shot it was, then giving themselves a point for the loss.

I had other points, I could debate all day, but there was no fight. I hope that I've planted enough seeds that they will research some things for themselves. Even if they were to pull up pictures of the whole governing body sodomizing goats while drinking blood they would remark on how Jehovah would judge them and continue to follow what they said.

So we turned the conversation to where we were going to go from there. My father snorted, asking if we were going to get upset at them praying at meals and I assured them that I just wanted mutual respect for beliefs. I will respect theirs, and ask them to respect mine. That was not a problem.

My mother asked what we expected with the children. I said that I didn't mind her talking about Jehovah and creation, but I would like the witness aspect out of it and wouldn't want the kids going to meetings. She thought that was a fair enough point. My dad asked what if the kids asked to go to the meeting with them. I questioned him back with "without coaching?" but my mother replied that she would instruct them to ask their parents before they would take them. In all this, I believe them. If nothing out, I was raised very consistently. If my parents said one thing, they meant it, I never remember my parents outright lying, ever.

So then my dad asked if we were going to disassociate ourselves.

From here the conversation started to fall apart. I said that I had no plan to, that I didn't view myself as a witness and didn't feel the need to. He commented that if we made a stand against the organization they would respect the congregation's wishes for how to handle that. My mother looked horrified.

I said that I respected that, but I didn't see it as consistent. Asked to explain I said that I already told them my intent. I told them that I didn't want anything to do with the congregation or the witnesses and they were fine with associating. But if the congregation made an announcement, then all of a sudden I would become wicked. I challenged this. My father didn't address it, he just said they would repect the wishes of the congregation.

I said fine, but make sure that's what they really want because I would hold them to it. Then he made the most illogical statement I've ever heard him make.

"We'll still be able to talk to the grandkids though"

My reply: "why"

"Because they are our grandchildren"

Me: "I'M YOUR SON!"

At this point my mother broke down into tears and left the room. My father just matter-a-factly stated that I was making a stand against Jehovah and that the children are still innocent.

I told them that I would never put my children in the position of needed to explain why nana and grandpa don't talk to mommy and daddy. I refuse. Absolutely and steadfastly.

My mother came back in the room and lost her temper. She said the worst curse word she knew "damn"

"I'm damn mad" she said, then stomped her foot repetitively as she cried out "DAMN, DAMN, DAMN, DAMN, DAMN!!!"

I didn't like seeing her like this. I said calmly "Mom, please don't..."

She said that this conversation was over, there was only two organizations on earth, Jehovah's and Satan's and I was picking Satan's. She said this conversation was over and I should just leave. I got up to go and my father realized that it was it.

I am as consistent as they are. If I say we are out of their lives, that's it. He started to try to find a compromise.

"why would you dissassociate yourself anyways?" I said that I had no desire to, but likely we would be DF'd. "Nonsense, you've done nothing they can DF you for" was his reply.

I was exasperated, "You don't understand, people just can't walk away. We have elders and the CO coming by. Last time they were there, they were asking [edit] about me, asking if I was reading apostate sites, if I was having apostate thoughts"

They may be deluded, but 1+1 was starting to add up for them. Then it equaled 3.

No, it couldn't be that way, they wouldn't do that. They don't go looking to kick people out.

Try as I might, they just couldn't fathom that the organization won't let people walk away. My dad then went elder mode:

So long as you don't say you want to leave the organization in front of two witnesses, there's nothing they can do.

What's this? Is my father actually giving me advice on how to fade?

He continued "so long as you don't disassociate yourself in front of two witnesses, I don't see this being a problem"

He then went on to tell us that our cards are lost, even if they wanted to disfellowship us, they would have a hard time.

Interesting.

So we have a truce. Religion is a no fly zone now. They are very upset over the prospect of us celebrating holidays. Out of all the things to be upset about, that is worst point.

I went over to mom and said that if there is ever an announcement about me from the platform, to pray to Jehovah before she makes a decision. I told her that Jehovah doesn't want families to be apart and I am not a bad person. I am the same person she raised and is standing before her now. Men in bethel should dictate who she can love.

She gave me a hug and I went to leave. Standing at the door my mom thanked me for talking to them and my dad said he was proud of me.

And I left.

Bobbi

I love you.

Bobbi

Bumble Bee

Wow Para, that went alot better than when I talked to my mother!

Good for you for finally making your stand, it is a hard thing to do, but, in the end, you feel so much peace.

BB

REBORNAGAIN

WOW...what courage. Your parents behavior was to be expected and in the end, quite unexpected. I think in the long run, things will work out exactly the way God has planned and not the way the JW's plan.

You did a great job. I'm proud of you too!

LINDA

eclipse

That brought tears to my eyes, Para.

I am really happy for you and Bobbi,

now you both can have peace of mind in knowing where you stand and where your parents stand.

Maybe one day they will wake up

Here's hoping...

skeeter1

It sounds like your parents admitted to the WT mistakes. They know the emperor wears no clothes.

But, the cult mindset is so embedded into them, you could not expect your 'apostate lies' to get deep into them.

Give them time, and space if needed. You've said enough for right now.

I expect the whole pedophile thing to "blow up" in the Watchtower's face, in Jehovah's due time. Then, your parents can not ignore this problem as it will not be just coming from you.

Skeeter

Shawn10538

Amazing story. Or is it typical? Anyway, I'm a firm believer that if parents stop associating with their sons and daughters, then they don't get to see the grandkids. Also, since you were able to fill them with much information, you never know when it is going to sink in. I also believe that exJWs should make every effort to get subversive thoughts accross. Even if they just hear the words "The WT was a member of the UN," then it will bother them on some level and eventually it will just click. It may be years from now, but it just may click before you know it. Good luck.

ex-nj-jw

((((((((((((((((((((Parp)))))))))))))))))))))))

nj

BlackSwan of Memphis

Para, you handled the beautifully.

I honestly wish I would have had the maturity to handle things the way you did. Things might have been different for me and my family.

Good job and your father has every right to be proud of you.

(((((((((((((((((((((para and bobbi))))))))))))))))))))

Open mind

Para said:

My parents live less than 10 minutes away and last night I found myself right up by their house on an errand. I told myself that there would never bee a "good" time so I veered from my way home and headed to their house.

Reading this I felt like I was right in the vehicle with you. Do or die time.

Para you really displayed a lot of courage and honor in how you handled this. I'm curious, especially since this was your parents, was there any fear in your gut? Or have you moved past that?

BTW, if it's not too personal, can I ask (roughly) how old your parents are?

Thanks again for sharing this here.

Open Mind

The fade is over, talked to my parents last night. (very very long)

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