faith is not rational, no matter what that faith is in.
faith is an emotion and you can't argue emotions.
The fade is over, talked to my parents last night. (very very long)
by Paralipomenon 70 Replies latest jw friends
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Younglove1999
wow-
thanks for sharing what happened-
I wonder too if I'll ever have to have that in depth of a discussion with my parents-
currently my mom knows we don't want anything to do with the org. but she thinks it's just stress and we'll eventually wake up-
your post really hit home-
thanks again for posting it
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White Dove
That was very brave of you! I hope it works out.
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White Dove
Yes, faith is a belief in something for which there is no empirical evidence. That is the definition of faith.
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daniel-p
It was infuriating. I felt like a was playing tennis and delivering perfect shot after perfect shot, but rather than try to volley them back, they just were standing there remarking on what a great shot it was, then giving themselves a point for the loss.
Perfect description.
Thanks for sharing your story - gives me hope. Unfortuately my parents are not above lying and manipulating others for Jehovah.
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Paralipomenon
Some more interesting points I remembered from the discussion:
1) Apparently now when a former pedophile moves into a congregation, it is announced and that person is unable to be offered privileges that would put them in contact with children. I knew about the latter, but I didn't hear anything on them announcing it to the congregations.
2) I tried to bring up the pagan history of wedding bands as a double standard. My father reminded me that the outline reads "this couple has chosen to exchange rings as an outwardly sign of their bond". While not condemned, not condoned either. Score one point for my dad. Curse his total recall.
3) In their pleading with me not to celebrate Halloween my mother asked if I knew where it started. I thought I did, but apparently the flood was in October and that's when the demons lost all their children. Halloween is their vengeance, appealing to kids and drawing them closer to Satan. At this point I was tired and didn't feel like pointing out that if 607 was wrong, that would put out all their calculations for guesstimating the the flood.
4) My mother was actually asked me to send her links on 607 and the UN scandal. She hadn't heard of it before and wanted to research it. Given how the conversation went from that point on, I'm debating sending it right away, maybe in a few months I'll ask if she's looked anything up. She's discovering the internet and even surprised me by suggesting I look up the roots of Halloween on "Wikia". The fact that she barely can send email, but knows about wikia is encouraging. -
oompa
Para---Send you mom the info NOW! They are not getting any younger and she may forget the whole thing in a few months.
strike while iron hot.....oompa
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sir82
1) Apparently now when a former pedophile moves into a congregation, it is announced and that person is unable to be offered privileges that would put them in contact with children. I knew about the latter, but I didn't hear anything on them announcing it to the congregations.
Absolutely not true. Just making it up. If anyone announced "Brother So and So is a pedophile and can't have privileges" they'd be facing a judicial committee on charges of "slander" so fast it would make your head swim.
2) I tried to bring up the pagan history of wedding bands as a double standard. My father reminded me that the outline reads "this couple has chosen to exchange rings as an outwardly sign of their bond". While not condemned, not condoned either. Score one point for my dad. Curse his total recall.
So? If someone "chooses to celebrate Christmas as a outward sign of enjoying time with their family", does that make its pagan origin go away? A double standard is a double standard.
3) In their pleading with me not to celebrate Halloween my mother asked if I knew where it started. I thought I did, but apparently the flood was in October and that's when the demons lost all their children. Halloween is their vengeance, appealing to kids and drawing them closer to Satan. At this point I was tired and didn't feel like pointing out that if 607 was wrong, that would put out all their calculations for guesstimating the the flood.
Not much you can do on that one. You'd pretty much have to disprove the flood - that's pretty easy to do, but as joelbear pointed out, it's a matter of faith/emotion and there's no room for reason. I'd just drop it for now.
4) My mother was actually asked me to send her links on 607 and the UN scandal. She hadn't heard of it before and wanted to research it. Given how the conversation went from that point on, I'm debating sending it right away, maybe in a few months I'll ask if she's looked anything up. She's discovering the internet and even surprised me by suggesting I look up the roots of Halloween on "Wikia". The fact that she barely can send email, but knows about wikia is encouraging.
Yeh, definitely send as much as you can, so long as it comes from "non-apostate" sites (CNN, the UN site, etc.)
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journey-on
I read your thread and got choked up about 3/4 through it. I haven't read all the replies to it. I just want to say
to you that I hope everything works out okay for you. Your parents sound like loving parents and it just makes
me so DAMN mad that your mom has to be put in a position where she has to choose between you and what
she perceives as Jehovah. We know it's between you and a man-made organization, but because of her
brainwashing, she will consider the org. and God as one and the same. It puts moms in such a horrific turmoil.
But, take heart, Para. Perhaps she will be like my mom was to my two df'd brothers. For a brief period of time,
she shunned them like she was supposed to, but it didn't last long. She went in prayer to her Jehovah and decided
on her own that it was wrong to do that to the two sons she raised with love. She began treating them just as she
always had and the congregation NEVER counselled her about it.
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JWdaughter
You did well, Para.
I know you went in prepared to totally get the monkey off your back, and you still have it hanging on your coattails. . .life is a compromise-always. You were honest, you were forthright. The only ones REALLY compromising here are your parents. They are willing to not be 'two witnesses'. You are NOT willing to go to the elders or play the games. It isn't about winning or losing, but I think we can chalk up this one to you. Your folks already admitted they know the issues in the org. They are willing to play the game, play the odds. You aren't. All my best to you and yours!
Shelly