SURVEY: Who Believes In "God"? (page 10)

ozbrad

If you believe then you still think all other Gods are man made but yours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities Make sure you pick the right one. Personally I think they're all false.

There is only one thing that I know for a fact and I mean I know and I do not mean I believe, and that is that I know that God exists. What the Bible means and everyting else having to do with doctrines and beliefs, I do not know with certainty, but there are many doctrines that I do not believe in at all. There are somey fundamental beliefs that I think are true, some that I do not believe are true and some that I am not sure about. One thing that I know and am certain about is that God is a real entity.

Quentin

I believe...there is a God...believe in prayer as well...strongly believe it is a personel matter, seeing no value in correcting others, or attempting to make them "see the light"...as it were...

Where ever you are with God is where ever you are...belife, non-belife, somewhere inbetween...bring mental, or physical harm to others with your believes you are my enemy...God, nor Science gets you off the hook...be good to yourself, be good to others, enjoy life...it's the only one you have...

Vinny

"It should be emphasized, there is no reason to believe in a god."

***** Why not read the title of this thread. It asks, "Who (((believes))) in God".

Just another atheist hijacking, so it appears.

If you do not believe in God, then good for you. For many, there are numerous reasons to believe. Why not just respect those beliefs. This is an EX-JW site.

Not an atheist site.

Gopher

Vinny,

If somebody asserts there is no REASON to believe in God, there's no need to take it as an attack or a hijack. It's just an assertion.

Atheists understand that believers have their reasons. The point is that it is a belief, as opposed to something that can be proved or disproved scientifically.

Merry Magdalene

I expect you're still busy so you haven't been able to get back to this topic yet, but I'd be interested to know if you think I effectively refuted the argument or not? If not, you could explain how I failed. Or if you think I have, I think it would be dishonest for you to use the same argument when speaking to other nonbelievers from this point on. It would essentially be trying to trick them to believe in a god, because it may sound convincing to them if they don't know how to refute it.
I'm open to any other 'reasons' for believing in a god, but you should understand I came to the atheist position after researching the many reasons and refutations in great detail. I've found (so far) that there is no reason to believe in a god. It comes down to wanting god to be true so much people believe, or not knowing all the refutations to the arguments for god's existence. I'm open to being proved wrong though. Are you?

Yes, I have been very busy. Thank you for understanding. I'm definitely not dodging you.

If I understood you correctly, I would agree that we can remove certain concepts of god from the discussion according to whether the actual teachings about them would place them within a finite universe or outside it. As such, Allah would not be excluded from the discussion because you were mistaken about the Qur'an speaking of him as having blood. I hope you didn't miss the remarks I posted also on page 3 about the nature of God in Islamic thought.

I am not a scientist but as far as my powers of observation and reason extend, I would say that it is clear to me that our universe did have a beginning and because it had a beginning it cannot be infinite if infinity means having neither beginning nor end. And if there was a time when it did not exist, it could not bring itself into existence, right? Same with the sun.

I maintain there has to be something beyond our comprehension--infinite, unmeasureable, beyond mass and energy, that brought it all into being. Our universe may have the capacity to continue forever, I don't know. It seems likely, according to my theological views, because Allah has said that he will destroy it and then recreate it, and what is recreated will be allowed to exist eternally.

Whatever the dance between matter and energy, there is still a finite amount, isn't there? Things still have limits and can be measured. And, though positive and negative numbers can go on infinitely, that which they number cannot and, as far as I know, that is their only purpose. Numbers cannot exist apart from the numbered and the numberer, can they? I don't know. I suck at math.

I am not sure why you are bringing other theoretical universes into this discussion. Is it because you ran out of room for argument in this one, having agreed that it did have a beginning? I am wondering how both of these statements can exist in your mind:

While ours certainly had a beginning

An alternative would be that the universe has always existed

This I understand a little better:

There may be countless universes, with the death of one helping a new one form.

But if all you can offer is the idea of an infinity of universes giving rise one to the next because none of them can be infinite in themselves...well, I just don't find that born out rationally by what we have to go on in this one, while I do find the explanation I offered to be rational. Why do you find the explanation I posit to be less believable than this one? Or is it simply less appealing?

Of course if it turns out there was a god behind the big bang, it certainly won't be Allah. It's more likely to be Atum, who people believed made the universe by ejaculaing it into existence.

When you thought Allah was described as having blood, you said that excluded him from our discussion. So why would you not exclude a god that is described as ejaculating? Or were you accepting the latter as a metaphor? Or were you simply being facetious?

So, no, I don't think you effectively refuted the argument I presented. Maybe effective for some, but not for me. And you can obviously say the same likewise.

As I said before, I have never really questioned the existence of God, only concepts about God. But as I began to study Islam, I was encouraged by the writings of various Muslims not to accept anything on blind faith but to use inquiry and reason in the quest for understanding and for ordering my life. This makes sense to me as Muslims are all called upon to bear witness or testify to the existence of Allah, and how can one do that effectively without presenting evidence? So I am exploring that now.

It's kind of backwards I admit, but that seems to be one of my quirks. Ironically, I was also rather backwards in math class. The teacher accused me of cheating because I didn't show my work. I couldn't. I didn't know how, even though I had the right answers. So he gave me a new set of equations to do while he watched me do them. When he was done, he just shook his head in bewilderment and said, "Well, I don't know how you got them either, but those are the answers." I eventually had to put a great deal of effort into learning how to do math in such a way as I could show how I arrived at the answers. LOL

Please excuse me if my thoughts are jumbled or rambling...too much to do and not enough sleep. Plus I confess to feeling like a Bear of Very Little Brain, but we do the best we can with what we've got, eh?

~Merry

Cheetos

I have no memory of NOT praying to Jehovah through Christ Jesus, so, (YES) I feel there IS a god who made all things.

serotonin_wraith

Merry, thanks for the response. I'll get back to you later today on that.

Vinny,

I was responding to those who said they believed in a god, and then followed that up by explaining why. They went further than the original question, yet when I do it I'm in the wrong? I see.

If you do not believe in God, then good for you. For many, there are numerous reasons to believe. Why not just respect those beliefs. This is an EX-JW site.
Not an atheist site.

This also isn't a Christian site, yet people are free to tell others what they feel concerning that. We're all sharing our beliefs. Please respect my belief that religious beliefs deserve no respect.

If you don't think I should give my thoughts, please don't preach to anyone ever again, because that's what you're doing too.

delilah

I believe in God, but I'm just not sure WHAT I believe......

......thanx watchtower.....

SURVEY: Who Believes In "God"?