So...I got duped today! (page 5)

nvrgnbk

Ona, you're just jealous that you don't share JD's awesomeness.

We should all aspire to such greatness.

John Doe

John Doe, Well, let's go for it, eh?
On what "basis" do you establish your personal authority to determine what other people should choose to give, or not to give, to someone who seems to be in need?
Please feel free to provide quotations from your favorite spiritual or inspirational authorities.

I base my statements on the premises that fraud ought not to be encouraged and also that few people in need of help beg on the street and the ones who do are using fraud to gain unjust enrichment. That we should not promote fraud and unjust enrichment I hold to be self evident.

I welcome you to provide evidence that I am incorrect about either promoting this fraud on the people or the actual need of those begging on the street.

onacruse

I base my statements on the premise

So, your assertion is a premise, and not a proof?

that fraud

Another assumptively loaded word. You have more, I presume?

and also that few people in need of help beg on the street and the ones who do are using fraud to gain unjust enrichment.

And you know this how?

That we should not promote fraud and unjust enrichment I hold to be self evident.

A typical non-sequitor: You assert an unproven "truth," and thereupon make make an unprovable conclusion.

I welcome you to provide evidence that I am incorrect about either promoting this fraud on the people or the actual need of those begging on the street.

I first put the burden of proof on you, since you were the one who made the accusation. Put up, or shut up.

John Doe

I first put the burden of proof on you, since you were the one who made the accusation.

First of all, are you disagreeing with my conclusions, or are you just stirring crap?

What I've stated has been fairly well established before, and I feel no need to itemize it here. Furthermore, I do not feel compelled to offer proofs for every opinion I express. Do you? I have neither the time nor the desire to do so.

onacruse

Furthermore, I do not feel compelled to offer proofs for every opinion I express.

As I gathered.

Do you?

Sure.

I have neither the time nor the desire to do so.

Then thank you for your valuable time.

John Doe

You're welcome. Now, did you disagree with the veracity of my conclusions?

onacruse

Now, did you disagree with the veracity of my conclusions?

Read the thread, think about what I said, take a good nap, and perhaps in the morning you will have a clearer view of the universe.

Perhaps not.

John Doe

I suspect you're somewhat irked because you agree with me, but you are offended by any mention of "morals." Am I right?

onacruse

I suspect you're somewhat irked

You suspect?? Now what have I posted here that would suggest that I'm irked with you? Perhaps you are projecting?

because you agree with me,

But of course...I already admitted that, in some respects, I agree with you. Is it necessary for you to restate the obvious?

but you are offended by any mention of "morals." Am I right?

Not by any means! I simply suggested that you were setting yourself up as a moral arbitrator of such matters, and challenged you to present credentials for your asserions. Are you prepared to so do?

John Doe

Not by any means! I simply suggested that you were setting yourself up as a moral arbitrator of such matters, and challenged you to present credentials for your asserions. Are you prepared to so do?

Are you saying that any expression of moral opinion is setting oneself up as a moral arbitrator? If so, I disagree. What I offered was a moral opinion. When such opinon is offered, each individual has the option to examine such an opinion and decide if it is relavantly and justly applied. Offering such opinion in no way suggests one is an arbitrator, and as such requires no such credentials.

However, assuming such credentials would be required, I hold that the threshold would be low for knowing what a reasonable person should do to benefit society and thusly act in a moral fashion. Each one of us is encoded with a moral law that is shaped through contact with the society in which we live. Unless a person is sociopathic or has some other mental defect, he is well equipped to know what society demands and the course of actions that benefit society. And that, my freind, is plenty of qualification.

So...I got duped today!

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