Am I In A Judicial Loophole? - advice please.... (page 2)

MadTiger

Summary:

Don't tell your parents anything about your lifestyle that they would view as a sin (whether in a gloating manner or a matter-of-fact manner. Just don't do it.)

Do not contact the Hall. If your parents rat you out, post again, and then we convene council once more to discuss strategy

AudeSapere

I don't think you are necessarily in the clear but you could sure work to dodge any contact.

My mom did this to my brother. He was married and living out of state and for some reason wanted him to be brought before a committee. I think it was because he was celebrating christmas - or some such nonsense. At the time I was pioneering and thought it odd of her. I mean first of all, why bother? And second of all, it's your son~! - the father of your grandchildren..

For my part, I just had little to do with him but did not give him grief. (Now that I'm out, we are much more friendly)

The elders asked my mom: Does anyone in his new area recognize him as one of Jehovah's witnesses? No?? Then there's really nothing we can or need to do.

Of course, that was 15 years ago and probably in different states. So it may not even apply to you.

Good Luck!

-Aude.

5thGeneration

Does anyone in his new area recognize him as one of Jehovah's witnesses? No?? Then there's really nothing we can or need to do

Aude,

Exactly why I said J is in the clear.

I have never heard of Elders trying to track down a complete stranger from another State who is inactive.

If they did they would never have time for anything else.

TD

JW's are capable of any foolishness and people have been disfellowshipped in absentia by elders they do not know from congregations they have never attended.

I'm no expert by any stretch, but I do think your position is somewhat better than if you had not moved. From what I've observed, the JW parent organization insulates itself from civil actions by claiming that the individual congregations are autonomous. Judicial matters are between you and the congregation you attend. We all know this is a lie, but JW elders can get themselves in a great deal of trouble by breaching that legal firewall and therefore must perpetuate that fiction as if it were true.

Given that fact, the elders in local JW congregations would ostensibly be completely unconnected with elders from any congregation you may have attended in the past. Therefore, if you've never attended a congregation in your new location, they would consequently have a very hard time claiming any sort of pastoral interest in you. The authority of any church official over you is only that which you give them. Any elder foolish enough initiate and continue unwanted contact would be in a precarious position personally, because it would be harassment.

avidbiblereader

Hello Juniper, there is some really good advise and truth to the comments posted above me, I was an elder for 4 years and seen so many things that you would not believe. So much for all speaking in agreement.

The only witnesses I speak with now are my folks. They recently learned of my 'unchristian' ways and are pressuring me to speak with the local congregation to (as far as I can understand) have them df me so my folks will know whether or not they can talk to me now.

How did they learn of your "unchristian" ways, was it your word of mouth or from others, deny any charges to your family, REMEMBER by meeting with the JD committee, is equivolent to summitting to their authority even though they will do what they want, there is no written rule of time out of the org in which to come after someone. Many different local policies put into place for select individuals. If you meet, you are nailing yourself to the tree.

They want to have a relationship, but are confused by their 'love of the one true god'. (ACK!)

They must understand what they think is right now will later have adverse effects on them later, tell them God is your judge and not men, who know little to nothing of you. THEY CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

In my situation, can anyone disfellowship me if I have no contact with them?

They will hold court and do as they want, you must remember they think they are doing what is righteous and what they are supposedly appointed to do.

Can they df you if you don't go to the judicial meeting?

They have and will continue to do so

Can I just not ever call the local kh to talk to the elders and live out my life in this loophole?

You can run but you cant hide, my brother was DF'd 20 years after he left and no one knew of him as a witness, it will depend on your local elders and any vindettas they have against you and who their informants are.

abr

Hortensia

your parents are out of their minds. They want you to go to a local kingdom hall and confess to total strangers about your personal life which is your own business, so they can "find out" if it's OK to talk with you. Can't they see how crazy that is? Are you going to give into that kind of crap?

S EIGHT

Just be careful. Rules that govern situations like this seem to be created locally.

In short, elders will do what ever they want and re-write the scriptures to support their actions.

My advice is to keep a low profile, say nothing negative and enjoy what limited association you can with your parents.

If you're not bothered about your family then I suggest you wait until the next C/o vist and go to the public talk naked with a banana up your bottom shouting "I'd like to confess my wrong doing, would two witnesses like to come and watch".

That should bring matters to a conclusion rather swiftly.

Just my humble opinion. Some may agree some may disagree.

S8

AllTimeJeff

Ex Elder (and happily an ex) will tell you what should happen:

They can't DF you if they don't even know you. If it is as you have described, I think you are ok.

I agree with others who say not to divulge your lifestyle choices with your cult following parents. It sounds to me like they (your parents) aren't going to do anything to you. From my experience, if you simply tell them that for the time being you would like some time and space on the JW front, then I think that may do the trick. I would avoid making an issue of JW topics with your parents. Many (myself included) who have tried to talk to JW parents still in have been amazed at how resistent they can be to the thought that JW are wrong.

If YOU are the one who insists on sharing your lifestyle choices and feelings on the JW's consistently with your parents, you are putting yourself at more of a risk to have something done. I am not saying that you will be disfellowshipped in absentia, but it could happen. It all depends. Discretion would be the better part of valor in your case. It isn't fair, but that is the hand you have been dealt. All the best to you!

OnTheWayOut

I generally agree with Sir82,

In my situation, can anyone disfellowship me if I have no contact with them?
It really depends on the elders where you are. If you are not perceived as a "threat" to the congregation and are not known as a JW in that area, they shouldn't go after you, per the elders manual. But, who knows what they might consider a "threat"?

Can I just not ever call the local kh to talk to the elders and live out my life in this loophole?
That's your safest bet. The main thing you have going for you is that you are unknown to the elders where you are. If the congregation does not have your publisher cards, they almost certainly won't do anything judicial. Elders love to avoid doing work - and "we don't have her cards" is a perfect excuse for not doing anything in your case.
Just lay low, don't step foot in the Kingdom Hall, and your chances of avoiding a DF are better than 90%, in my estimation.

If you are prepared to lie to your folks, you can end this. If you are not prepared to lie to them, you can
try to end this.

You can lie and say, "I met with the local brothers. They say I have not lived as a witness, and there is no
reason to proceed with anything judicial." Don't offer your folks more than that. You didn't get names, and
you don't know the answers to any questions they might think of. All you know is that you told them where
you used to live, where you got baptized, what your life has been like, and they reached a decision.

If you are not prepared to make such a bold lie, and many would not be, then you should still stay out of the
Kingdom Hall. You should tell Mom and Dad that you don't live as a JW, and have no intention of going to the
elders. They may have a problem with that, they may shun you, they may go to their elders.

I actually prefer the second choice. I just offer the "lie" as a way out. Still, it involves treachery. All is fair in
theocratic warfare, but I wouldn't do #1.

bluebell

Well my mom lives in the next town, she hasn't a vendetta against me and isn't bothered that i celebrate xmas and b'days, comes round every week and when the tree is up comments that it's pretty.

So not quite the same as you BUT

when elders from the area I live go give a talk in her cong, she used to ask them to come visit me, and they never did. haven't heard anything from anyone in near enough 4 years and have patted my mom on the shoulder telling her i'm more trouble than i'm worth to them

so even if your parents went to the trouble of contacting your local congregation and asking them to call, the elders may not even bother!

Am I In A Judicial Loophole? - advice please....

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