Am I In A Judicial Loophole? - advice please....

by Juniper 47 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  besty

  my family dobbed us in and my brother made a special trip of 900 miles to give evidence at the JC.
  
  Before that my Mum said 'when the congreagtion make an announcement I'll know what to do' - at that stage I didn't even know a JC was being formed -
  
  family can be your worst enemy if they are hardliners...
• 

  TD

  I'm not a JW and have only been loosely associated through family and a JW spouse.

  Based on some of the replies of current(?) and former JW elders on this thread, I'm curious.

  Let's assume that Juniper is contacted by a JW elder that she doesn't know from a congregation she's never attended. He suspects that she may not be living the life of a JW.

  If I were Juniper and I felt badgered in any way (Let's say the elder wants to discuss my "Status" relative to some aspect of my private life) I would call the police immediately.

  The police are going to contact this elder and ask him to give his side of the story. What business did he have with a total stranger? Why did this person feel harassed or even threatened?

  Let's assume that you are the JW elder. How do you claim a pastoral interest in a total stranger without revealing that you answer to a higher ecclesiastical authority than just the East Elksnot Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses?
• 

  JWdaughter

  I think you are in a great position, if your family wants to reason from the scriptures with you. The verse that is the biggie for DF'ings reads, "If anyone calling himself a brother is . . ." (you know, anything BIBLICAL to justify cutting off a person in the JW mindset). Then using that scripture go to your parents and say, Mom, dad, I am not calling myself a JW (brother) anymore. I don't identify myself that way and you know that is true. As I am not associating myself with witnesses, nor am I indicating to others that I am a witness, you should be able to, with a clear biblical conscience, associate with me freely, as a person of the world. Sitting down to eat with me and everything. Just my .02.

  Good luck:)
• 

  drew sagan

  have no contact and you are in good shape. There is always the possibility they will try to force judicial action upon you, but that will usually only happen if somebody on the inside is making accusations against you.
• 

  primitivegenius

  Sorry minimus,

  Complete strangers with no publisher record card, no congregation file, no association with any congregation and not claiming to be an active JW will not be hunted down and disfellowshipped.

  You sure speak in absolutes for someone who's obviously been away a long time.

  There are some of us who are still in who know the scoop.

  true enough...........for the most part. the local cong has no knowledge so why would they bother? fact...... they wouldnt, the socety keeps them swamped with enough work to keep them from thinking for themselves anyway... 5 meetings a week 4 magazines a month plus the other publications and service and and and...........

  problem is......... if they think you are a threat then depends on your BOE because i have seen witch hunts happen to many times. it will have to start with the congregation where your card is............. they could be contacted by a local congregation and that could start it ....... or the parents can contact their elders and they can contact the nearest cong with personal info obtained from the parents...........

  depends if your from a small cong where they have alot of elders.............. so they need something to do... or if your from the cong of 200 with 5 elders who are running their butts off.

  keep quiet...... admit NOTHING............ try and live your life.

  my dad is the PO of a neighboring congregation. he left the cong we grew up in because "the need was greater" he knows i go to church, and he is doing nothing. if he was PO in the other cong........... dont know what he would be forced to do.
• 

  willyloman

  ona wrote:

  As an aside: I knew a fellow who was df'd from the Tigard congregation, and he went up a little bit north to the Beaverton congregation, and he presented himself as an upstanding brother at the book study. He was so convincing that he was even asked to offer the opening prayer. In a short time, he was "found out."

  Just to share a related story:

  We had a guy move in with a letter from a distant congo where he was an MS. Over time he became best friends with an elder who also pioneered and they worked together often. About a year after he moved in, the elder was touting his "pioneer partner" as elder material. A week before the elder's meeting at which we would have discussed recommending him, a strange turn of events took place.

  At the Sunday meeting, two young couples showed up. They introduced themselves as brothers and sisters from two different congregations in a neighboring state. One of them was the daughter of the couple under discussion; another was the son. It was not a family reunion. They sat far across the hall from their parents. They asked to speak to the elders after the meeting.

  In the library, the two siblings told a hair-raising story about growing up several states away and suffering mental and physical abuse at the hands of both parents. They told us that nearly 20 years ago, the father had been removed as an elder and the mother had been disfellowshipped some time after that and, as far as the kids knew, never reinstated. The couple had adopted a slightly different spelling of their last name. The kids provided contact information so we could call distant elders to confirm. When we brought the parents in to hear their side of it, the mother got up and walked out. The father denied everything but was covered with flop sweat and was clearly lying. We told him we would not be recommending him anytime soon and that he'd be removed from the pioneer list.

  Shortly after, they packed up and moved to parts unknown.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I have read the back and forth of opinions. For the most part, you all seem to understand
  that anything could happen, but doesn't necessarily have to happen.

  As far as jurisdiction is concerned- a publisher's card does trump most other concerns,
  but it is not absolutely necessary. This record only indicates a baptism date and status
  along with month-to-month totals for recruiting. If good witnesses attest to the person's
  being a baptized JW, and parents would be the best, then a witch hunt could be
  started by the local congregation where a fellow lives.

  Their concern would be for the JW's in the area and the parents. The elders would say that
  the person may not be living as a witness, but his parents had contact with him, and they
  know he is one. Other JW's may cross his path, and he could adversely affect them.
  They could decide that he needs to be DF'ed if he doesn't cooperate with a JC.

  The reason they wouldn't do this- they would have to speak with those parents and try to
  determine where his publisher's record is. They would have to write the Society to locate
  any information on him. After coming up empty, they would have to attempt for 2 elders
  to get the information from him. Whether he provided it or not, they would have to
  shepherd him, investigate him, determine his status, counsel him, invite him to a JC or
  meet as a body to determine that he is DA. If he provided no information, then they would
  rely on the parents' word. They could only DF him if there was some violation of the rules.
  There are so many rules, any "worldly" person is bound to have violated one, but was it
  serious enough to DF him?

  You see all the work involved. Yet, it can be done. Suppose you are a mechanic and the
  local P.O. was upset at how much you charged him one time to fix his brakes. This comes
  to light. "Well, let's get him." Suppose you told your neighbor what you think of JW's and
  that neighbor told the kindly sister what you said. Now you are apostate, turning people
  against JW's. "Let's get him." There are various scenarios that come into play.

  Either lie to your parents or explain why you can't go through with meeting the JW's.
  But do not meet with them. Do not reveal your status to them. Even if the parents met
  with them, don't bother.
• 

  sass_my_frass

  Okay, I was disfellowshipped from a congregation that didn't have my publisher card, so obviously there is nothing in the elder lawbook about that being a condition. The difference is that I was well and truly on the elders radar; living with two sisters who were very active. I had attended meetings for a year and eventually stopped. I hadn't ever been out on the preach in that congregation so I was inactive, but it was a couple of years before the elders even asked if I was baptised. I hadn't given contact information to my previous cong so my card hadn't folllowed me.

  I went to the elders to set up the JC myself (*%$#?!). If, however, I had not done that, my godbothering parents would probably have done so on my behalf thinking it's what I needed. I went myself because I knew it was the only way to retain my parents support. I now know that I should have just realised that I can live without that, and made it their problem. So, I recommend;

  - if your parents or anybody at all hounds you for information, stand your ground. It isn't any of their business - tell them that if you have to. If the elders can't get a confession from you, and have no other source, they have nothing to work with.
  - if they get the elders to contact you, don't do anything that will give them something else to work with, like just having an untheocratic attitude or being a possible apostate. They might be the type to go after somebody just because of that. Give them nothing.
  - get on with living and enjoying your life. You can't control everything.