Can God's love be demanded? (page 12)

Sad emo

I'm sure there is much more to say, but what does it have to do with the question I've posed?

Well it started because you said you obey God's word - seemingly regardless of the context - because to regard context when interpreting 'God's word' would be far too fleshly - where's the Spirit?

However, from all the skipping back and forth between little bits of my replies, you are merely trying to confuse the topic further. Case in point - IF you had quoted the other verse from Acts in the first place instead of dragging me off on a wild goose chase, it would have been answered much sooner..., now you return to my point about God's sovereignty... without really addressing what I actually wrote. Where shall we go with that one then?

I answered your original question can God's love be demanded - there is no need to, it's a free gift. What did that have to do with Jacob and Esau? So please don't accuse me of starting topics within topics - that is rather a case of pot meet kettle!

I resurrected an old thread of yours this morning - you did exactly the same thing in that and were openly called for it - sidestepping, ducking and weaving - to the point that you were called a troll. I'll take the cheap shot here - you're hardly giving fine Christian witness here are you?

Witness 007

I demand God's love...he left me here on earth for my entire life, never comunicated directly with me, never gave me a sign that he cares or is there...left me in a suffering world to prove a point, what parent would do that? and then promises to destroy my if I doubt him or make a mistake, even though there are thousands of religions to chose from.

Sad emo

promises to destroy my if I doubt him or make a mistake,

especially when it's Him who causes you to make the mistake?!

(See I cut the loving parent bit because perhaps DD doesn't believe we're all God's children anyway)

AlphaOmega

I may see your point if you could convince me Judas or Satan acted (or were forced to act) against their own will. The wild card in this (for me) is man's perceived will.

Yes... it creates a dilema doesn't it ?

On the one hand, we have scripture telling us that Satan "entered" Judas and caused him to betray Jesus (so was Judas merely a puppet at this time, or did he fall to temptation ?) and on the other hand, we perceive it to be Judas' will.

Some translations (paraphrases ?) say that Satan took control of Judas.

If we are subject to the whims of the devil, then what becomes of our free will (especially if we conject that satan is a tool of God) ?

I guess that we are just as free to reject the nudges of the devil, as we are to reject the nudges of God.

...another issue is that Jesus actually told Judas to hurry with what he was about to do (the betrayl), he didn't tell him to stay, he didn't try to swing him round... why ? Surely Jesus knew that Judas was instrumental in the act of salvation.

...however, you could say that God saw the plan of the devil and used it to his own ends because the devil didn't realise the "trojan horse" effect of Jesus' death - he had no idea of what an impact it would have on the spiritual scales.

Another issue, if we stick to the literalness of the Bible, is "Do angels have free will?"

Deputy Dog

emo

Well it started because you said you obey God's word - seemingly regardless of the context - because to regard context when interpreting 'God's word' would be far too fleshly - where's the Spirit?

Please show me the quote

You must have misunderstood. I didn't say any such thing! You asked why should we pray for people to get saved or why witness to others. My answer to that is, simply because God tells us to. There are many things He tells me to do that I don't, but I should. I know I'm a sinner.

Thank you for pointing out my sin. I still have no idea what Acts15:29 has to do with the discussion, though.

I believe context is most important for properly understanding God's word. The flesh is in the interpreting of God's word, not in God's Word.

I answered your original question can God's love be demanded - there is no need to, it's a free gift. What did that have to do with Jacob and Esau? So please don't accuse me of starting topics within topics - that is rather a case of pot meet kettle!

If you read the context of Romans 9 you would see that The Potter's freedom is the issue in question.

Romans 9:21

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

Esau was hated by God. That's not my interpretation. That's what the text says.

Does God have the right to hate Esau? Or can Esau demand that God love him?

If you remember I hinted at this with my response to ellderwho

ellderwho Are you saying: that the potter has ..."a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?"

I resurrected an old thread of yours this morning - you did exactly the same thing in that and were openly called for it - sidestepping, ducking and weaving - to the point that you were called a troll. I'll take the cheap shot here - you're hardly giving fine Christian witness here are you?

I've been called far worse things than a troll. I'll forgive you.

You can blame me if you don't like something the bible says if you like, it just won't change anything.

Deputy Dog

A&O

...another issue is that Jesus actually told Judas to hurry with what he was about to do (the betrayl), he didn't tell him to stay, he didn't try to swing him round... why ? Surely Jesus knew that Judas was instrumental in the act of salvation.

Yea, Jesus even says

Mark 14:21

"For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."

It goes back to the Genesis 50:20 thing

Gen 50:20

"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

AlphaOmega

Mark 14:21"For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."

Indeed... (oooh colour change... e-sword does that to me too).

But, what does "better if not been born" actually mean ?

Does it mean : tormented in Hell for eternity ? ...or simply that he wouldn't have such a bad reputation ? ...or that he would not have to die such a dishonourable death ?

Deputy Dog

A&O

Sorry my edit wasn't fast enough

It goes back to the Genesis 50:20 thing

Gen 50:20

"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

Deputy Dog

A&O

But, what does "better if not been born" actually mean ?

Does it mean : tormented in Hell for eternity ?

Joh 17:12

"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Son of perdition, looks clear to me.

mouthy

Well what a discussion!!! I must be really stupid... Laws!laws!laws! wonder!wonder!wonder!

Trying to understand the Bible is out of my reach! All I know ! Is Creation I see! I find it beautiful.
I KNOW there had to be a force behind it. I do read scripture , I see where the parts I understand ,Proverbs, Psalms,Jesus remarks.Etc but the stuff in the old testement is out of my understanding. I have dicussed this with Jesus ( whom scripture said Created all ) He told me to "Come as you Are" so I did !!!! I came STUPID!!!! but I did find out that once I did that!!! I received a peace I never knew before.
I see myself just like an ant.... In this great big glorious creation, If they could realize ,I could look down on them & do as I ruddy well please with them , pick them up, step on them,keep them in a container as a pet. train them ( it has been done I am told)
I know I was given a brain ( has the ant one?) But apart from all your discussions I find it harder to believe THERE IS NO GOD!!! Yes I do believe MEN/Women has messed the world up somewhat.
But I just wish I could understand by all that dont believe !!! Seeing the world in all its beauty Came to be.? Yes I learned about Evloution ,But cant understand it.Dont get ticked with each other,,Just come to the conclusion ( old testment) Ecc 12: 13>>>>> I know I am bad!!!!

Can God's love be demanded?

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