by Deputy Dog 119 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Even showing preference is loving one over the other.
Absolutely not DD - In this case at least!!
It was a preference based on 'suitability' (not the best word but I've had a long day!) for the purpose.
Esau blew his opportunities, Jacob got the advantage - nothing to do with God loving one more than the other.
emo
Esau blew his opportunities, Jacob got the advantage - nothing to do with God loving one more than the other.
According to Romans 9:11 Esau was passed over before he was born. Before he had any "opportunities".
Do you think that every human is one of God's children?
As regards creation, yes I think so.
In the Gospels where Jesus' genealogy is listed, it goes right back to 'son of Adam, son of God'. Any human being could trace their genealogy as such.
As regards salvation, I'm personally not decided yet, I have these thoughts:
yes, because from the context of creation above, we are all God's children so how can we cease to be His children?
It could be that those who don't get saved (from what?) are like Esau, the opportunity is there but they 'blow it', they disown God as their Father. (Does that mean He stops loving them? Or that He ceases calling them His children?)
Then again, when we read other parts of the NT, we could say no because it refers to believers being adopted children. BUT - could this be referring to humanity as compared against the VERY and only-begotten son of God, Jesus Christ?
What do you think about the question you asked me DD?
(enjoying the dialogue btw )
We're crossing each other's posting paths here lol!
According to Romans 9:11 Esau was passed over before he was born. Before he had any "opportunities".
God knew what was going to happen before it happened? (Don't confuse that with decided what would happen!)
DD
The point I was trying to make is really very simple -
Children growing up in a family, whilst forming their own individual identities may start to believe that they are special and perhaps even that they are the favourites. I don't see anything wrong with that. However when they begin to believe that they are so special that their parents are going to destroy all the other children and preserve only them, then that to me is dangerous and delusional.
emo
What do you think about the question you asked me DD?
The Bible is very clear, so it doesn't matter what I think
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.God knew what was going to happen before it happened?
You need to decide how you think God "knew" what was going to happen. From what I see you saying so far, you must believe that God is a slave to time, His creation.
I believe God determines everything. Here's an example:
Acts 4:27
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.God determined before hand that both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, would murder Christ.
quietlyleaving
Children growing up in a family, whilst forming their own individual identities may start to believe that they are special and perhaps even that they are the favourites. I don't see anything wrong with that. However when they begin to believe that they are so special that their parents are going to destroy all the other children and preserve only them, then that to me is dangerous and delusional.
If their parents are wicked earthly people I could see your point. I'm talking about God of creation.
You need to decide how you think God "knew" what was going to happen. From what I see you saying so far, you must believe that God is a slave to time, His creation.
No DD, I believe the opposite - that God is outside time and can see it all - past, present and future and that He works His plan of salvation within that.
Here's another one for you to think about if everything is predestined by God to happen:
God determined before hand that both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, would murder Christ.
So these people did God's will. Are you saying then that God commands evil actions? Would they go to Hell if they didn't repent? Does God condemn people to Hell for doing His will??
And the age old question - why should we pray for people to be 'saved' if God already decided anyway?
Why even bother with this life at all - why didn't He just put everyone in heaven and hell?
To me, to say that God has deliberately predestined every move and action we make, and that He doesn't love some of His creation - sorry but even to me, a believer, that sounds like one big sick joke.
DD
would the God of creation still be God to you if he didn't destroy all the wicked earthly people, bearing in mind that we all die anyway. Would he seem less powerful or more powerful?
emo
First things first. On this we agree.
God is outside time and can see it all
You still won't tell me how God knows the future. Who determines the future? God or man?
Here's another one for you to think about if everything is predestined by God to happen:
God determined before hand that both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, would murder Christ.
So these people did God's will. Are you saying then that God commands evil actions?
He did not command these actions, according to the scripure he predestined them.
Act 4:27
"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.Please keep in mind you are not debating me, but God's word!
Would they go to Hell if they didn't repent? Does God condemn people to Hell for doing His will??
People are condemned because they are sinners.
And the age old question - why should we pray for people to be 'saved' if God already decided anyway?
Why even bother with this life at all - why didn't He just put everyone in heaven and hell?
To answer simply, because He tells us to.
To me, to say that God has deliberately predestined every move and action we make, and that He doesn't love some of His creation - sorry but even to me, a believer, that sounds like one big sick joke.
Tell that to God
