JW say df/shunning is Scriptural...How do we get around those Scriptures?

by oompa 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  SirNose586

  When that elder giving testimony tells the court that people have claimed disfellowshipping was "the greatest thing that could happen to them," I don't think he's lying. But we do have to understand what might be going on here.

  Remember the Stockholm Syndrome? The one where the captives develop a close bond to their captors? I think this situation triggers this feeling in the disfellowshipped person. They're being held hostage by the WTS's cold disfellowshipping policy. When the announcement occurs, it's like a gun held to the head. At first they are scared, upset, and despondent, just like a real hostage. The society tells them what they have to do to get out of the bad situation: "Just keep going to meetings for at least six months--don't miss a single one--and thenwe might let you talk to your family and friends again if you're sorry."

  In time, like the hostage, they begin to adapt to their situation. They get used to the chains; they have to if they want to get out of the problem. Then the elders let them go as hostages, and what happens next? The person loves the organization more than before! It's a perfect recreation of the Stockholm Syndrome. It's the Society's most powerful tool in keeping the r&f in line.
• 

  minimus

  Let's assume that JW disfellowshipping is correct. Let's assume that the whole process is scriptural. Where in the BIBLE, does it say that you can have limited dealings with members of your own family as long as they live in the home? The WT. teaches that if they are OUTSIDE of the home, one should not deal with them at all unless it involves "necessary" business.

  Where in the BIBLE does it show the procedure to df?? Where does it say 3 elders would sit in on a "judicial committee"? Where do all the rules come from? Certainly one cannot prove from the Bible that this process of hearings, judging and meting out certain "restrictions" comes from the Christian Congregation.
• 

  Magick

  August 2002 Kingdom Ministry

  next page:
• 

  Amyfa

  It's just a form of blackmail.
  
  A childs game if you dont play the game my way I am going to take my ball in and not play with you any more.
  
  It's so sad men can have a hold over these people.
  
  How can you phone your parent/child/friend and say I love you but can't talk to you anymore unless you do as you are told.
• 

  Shawn10538

  I have debated this with JWs many times. Unfortunately it is probably the toughest JW doctrine to argue against. I've seen a lot of people try, but usually it's a real stretch involving going back to original languages and what things were like historically back in the first century. In the end I have thrown my hands up and said, "Well, I don't bel;ieve in the Bible anyway." The fact is that they have the right to shun if they want to, unless it was outlawed by the state.It's not that I think they have the right in the absolute universal sense, but the 1st amendment allows for ANY treligious activity to be legal, even if it tears famil;ies apart.
• 

  dawg

  Like deserter said... is mouthy a fornicator, is she an adulterer? Is she a glutton? JUst kidding mouthy, I thought you'd get a laugh from this... I used her as an example just a few weeks ago with a cousin. THey make up new rules for disfellowshipping whenever it suits their interests. As I told my cousin, nowhere does it say that questioning men is a disfellowshipping offense.

  And not to mention, I've never seen a fat ass witness disfellowshipped. My cousin is rather large, and I brought this up to him. Gluttony is mentioned; yet no overweight folks ever get the ax

  Next 2 Tim 2:24 says that a person that questins doctrine should be treated kindly not ex communicated.

  Last, Paul wasn't an apostle until the Catholic Church made him that way...he was a murderer. He never even met Jesus as far as I know. He is teaching something different than Jesus when he says not to talk to sinners. As far as I'm concened he was one of th "oppressive wolves" that entered the cong after Jesus death. And this from an agnostic who don't beleive the bible is God's word. WHat makes Paul an "apostle" he does, he was the first JW in my mind..he acts like them and acts nothing like Jesus.. he's a jew always worried about the law, basically Paul was an idiot... it's reallly that simple.
• 

  R.Crusoe

  By asking your heart (NOT HEAD) if it feels like something you want to live by your whole life. Then go with it. Whether you're married, have children or whatever, you have to live with yourself for the rest of your life so being true to your heart is what I regret not having done, even though I bowed to the hearts of others before mine, looking back I do not think they appreciate it - in some cases quite the reverse!
• 

  B_Deserter

  Exactly. Paul is the Rutherford of the 1st century congregation. He came in a few years after Jesus' death, a former Pharisee. By reading his letters, it's obvious that he brought many of the staunch Jewish beliefs back into Christianity. All the harsh rules about shunning and behavior come from him, not Jesus. I often fantasize about seeing a Jehovah's Witness face when I tell him that the same committee that assembled the modern bible was the one that declared the trinity to be true.
• 

  dawg

  Exactly b-deserter... why is it they think the Catholic Church had no agenda when they decided what should be in the bible? Like God had his hand in what books should be allowed in the NT. He had his hand on the Catholic church the same way he has his hand on the WTBTS... NOT!
• 

  jwfacts

  Though there is scriptural precedence to avoid brothers practicing wrongdoing the Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.

  • 2 John 10 says not to ‘greet’ the Antichrist. The Watchtower uses this single scripture to support not saying “hello” to a disfellowshipped person.
  • The Watchtower forbids practices never even discussed in the Bible (such as smoking, gambling and having a blood transfusion) and then demands shunning of members that engage in such practices
  • Disfellowshipping is extended to prevent immediate family members associating with their disfellowshipped relatives
    The punishment applies forever, or until the Watchtower Society formally reinstates the person. It is considered irrelevant whether the person no longer practices the wrongdoing they were disfellowshipped
  • 1 Cor 5 says to avoid someone who is ‘called a brother’ who ‘is’ a wrongdoer. No indication is given that they should be avoided many years later when they are no longer recognised as a Jehovah’s Witness. Nor does it say to shun a person who has stopped their wrongdoing.

  2 Thess balances out 2 John and 1Cor 5

  2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15 “Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us…. 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.”

  3John 9, 10 “I wrote something to the congregation, but Di·ot´re·phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. 10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation.”

  http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm goes into more detail