While being new in the truth my wife dicussed the rape issue with her Pioneer {my mums annionted} teacher. Her response was to say if your raped you need to pray to Jehovah for help and JUST yell for him to stop so it's not considered fornication. I was shocked at this so I found her an Awake article about a Sister who was assulted by a tradesmen in her home. She punched and kicked and screamed and cut his legs with a knife. {And prayed!!!} The rapist gave up and left her alone...only to be identified later by his massive bruising and injuries. I always had to prove something using the publications like a bible. But my question is when it comes to rape..ARE THESE WITNESSES FRIGGIN CRAZY OR WHAT!!!!! If you don't scream because your paralized with fear, imagine being disfellowshiped back in the day...sick!
Pioneer Sister tells my Wife If your Raped just pray to Jehovah for help??
by Witness 007 40 Replies latest jw experiences
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stillajwexelder
yes almost as bad as a child needing 2 witnesses to prove molestation
or a Muslim woman needing 4 male muslim witnesses to a rape - yeah sure
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sweetstuff
Doesn't surprize me that the old "boys club" thinks that a woman who doesn't scream is a dirty girl who must have secretly enjoyed it and is thus guilty of fornication. They think everyone thinks they way they do, sick in da head.
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nelly136
not sure if theres any new light on this one
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/apl/jw/rape.txt
According to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses on the subject,
"Is rape fornication if the woman does not scream?"
***YES WT 1-15-64p.63 "...if she should submit to the man's passionate
wishes, she would not only be consenting to fornication or adultery, but
be plagued by the shame." (Does Rape involve "consent"? Do rapists ask
women if they would like to be raped?)
***YES WT 1-15-64 p 64 "A Christian woman is entitled to fight for her
virginity or marital fidelity to the death." (Luke 6:9 Jesus said it was
LAWFUL TO SAVE A LIFE, even if it meant breaking the Sabbath law to do
so...the Pharisees felt otherwise)
***YES 6-1-68 p.347 "An issue of integrity to Jehovah's law is involved
here. So by no means would it be proper quietly to submit to rape, as
that would be consenting to fornication."
***NO (inferred by definition) Aid to Bible Understanding, p1371, 601
(1969 +1971 ed) "RAPE is defined as unlawful sexual intercourse without
the woman's consent, effected by force, duress, intimidation..."
"FORNICATION: Sex relations by mutual agreement between two persons not
married to each other."
***YES Awake! 3-8-74 p.14 "...if she did not scream, she would be as
good as dead anyhow." "Also, that if she did not scream she would ruin
her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation; that
then she would be disfellowhiped or excommunicated from it."
***NO (inferred from text) Awake! 7-8-80 p. 5,6 "How Most Victims
React"..."often coupled with the fear is confusion and uncertainty. For
example, a 19 yr old explained, 'I never physically fought him off in any
way, partly because I was frightened mostly because in my naivete I
thought a girl has to do what she's told. I was overwhelmingly confused
and defenseless against the whole sudden suddenness.' "She reacted as
many others have under similar circumstances." "Profound terror in the
face of physical threats simply renders most women helpless."
***YES WT 10-15-80 p.7 "She told him that if he touched her she would
scream as he had never heard anyone scream before. She explained that if
she did not, she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the
Christian congregation. " A Christian woman is under obligation to
resist, for the issue of obedience to God's law to flee from fornication
is involved."
***NO WT 3-15-83 p.30 "What do we understand here by "fornication"?
The Greek word in this text is porneia. "A male or female who is forcibly
raped would not be guilty of porneia."
***YES Awake! 2-22-84 p.2 "But the rapist is asking a person to break
God's law by committing fornication." "Treat Him Respectfully" "...a
woman should not cower in fear and permit a rapist to intimidate her, at
the same time she should treat him understandingly as a fellow human."
Compare with the instructions given in the Awake 7-8-80 p. 12 "May she
properly inflict damage on her assailant? Indeed she may...she may use
any means at her disposal to resist intercourse." (Must a woman truly
treat a RAPIST with respect? How could she "treat him understandingly",
while at the same time screaming, resisting, and attempting to inflict
damage on her assailant by whatever means at her disposal? Isn't
"respecting him" an undue burden for a woman to bear under those
circumstances?)
***YES 2-22-84 p. 25 "If I gave in and he raped me, I would eventually
die and have no hope of a resurrection."
***NO Awake! 6-8-84 p. 28 For the victim to be considered guilty of
fornication there would need to be proof of willing consent."
***YES (inferred) Listed as one of the reasons why you should resist an
attacker from the first moment; by screaming and resisting, you would
ensure your cleanliness before God, the Awake! 5-22-86 p. 23 states,
"Your conscience will be clear. Even if you are raped, you will not
sacrifice your cleanliness before God." (If she did not scream/resist,
she would then BE guilty of fornication, willing or not)
***NO Awake! 9-22-86 p. 28 "True, the woman has to respond according
to her assessment of the danger to her life."
***NO Awake! 3-8-93 p. 5 "Myth: A rape victim bears part of the blame
unless she actively resists." "Fact: Rape by definition takes place when
force or threat of force is used to gain sexual penetration, of any kind
whatsoever, against a person's will." "Thus, a rape victim is not
guilty of fornication." "When a woman is forced to submit to a rapist
out of terror or disorientation, it does not mean that she consents to
the act. Consent is
based on choice without threat and is active, not passive." -
eclipse
Tell that braindead JW woman:
Since when is rape fornication???
Fornication is consensual sex between two lovers.
Being raped is not having sex. Being raped is being forcibly and painfully penetrated by an attacker.
You did not want nor ask for this assault.
The Governing are sick bastards who came up with this STUPID idea that non screaming women
were commiting fornication when being raped. Makes me so mad
I'd take that Awake! and smack her upside her head and tell her she's an idiot.
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Scully
she may use any means at her disposal to resist intercourse."
By calling it "intercourse" instead of "rape", the WTS writer implies that if penetration occurs, then she somehow consented to it.
Damn this makes me furious.
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ex-nj-jw
This particular subject really pisses me off! rape=intercourse??? Maybe the damn GB should be raped then see if intercourse applies, B@$%#&%$
nj
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R.Crusoe
It's hard to tell anyone what to 'successfully' do if they're confronted with rape. Like most conflict situations in life, the moment is so unpredictable and unexpected. One may suggest sensible things to attempt but it's foolish to make rules! Praying may be all some women get the chance to do and a way of preventing subconscious, unexpected stimulation - specially if the guy looked appealing despite a womans non conformity. Maybe that's the idea behind it!
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WTWizard
No wonder the people in that organization are so messed up. They get definitions that blatantly clash with each other in a short span of time. They are supposed to keep up. And the hounders aren't always up to date. They often disregard an update that softens up a bit, causing extra trouble for those who fall into these traps.
Besides this, since when is being forced to do something against your will, or having something done to you, a sin? Is it a sin if I decorate the Kingdumb Hell for Christmas? Would the hounders in that congregation be found guilty and disfellowshipped for my decorating their place? I doubt it. Or, is it a sin for your car to collide with a pedestrian and kill it, when the collision is the direct result of your getting rammed by another car or truck? Would you be responsible for being set up for something like that?
To be a sin, the sinner has to volitionally do something. Being raped, no matter whether or not the victim takes pleasure in the act or refuses to fight and scream, is not a sin because the victim did not take the initiatory action. No matter if the sex act would have been a sin if done volitionally, if you are raped, it is not a sin on your part (it is, however, a sin for the rapist as well as a crime).
Just pray to Jehovah? Try telling me that this is going to stop an attacker with duct tape and a gun. Putting the duct tape on the victim's mouth is going to silence the screams, and the gun will intimidate them out of calling for help. Most of the time, rape is not a sexual crime but a violent crime in using force on the sex organs. With the exception of statutory rape (which is really not that bad since the act is usually consensual but the person is legally not allowed to consent, and those laws cause more problems than they solve), rape is often an act of violence. (Date rape and drugged rape are other exceptions, as well as where the rapist lies and inveigles the victim rather than threatening and forcing. These cases are also bad, since fraud and drugs are often used to get consent).
As such, most rape is not going to be stopped just by calling on Jehovah or screaming. The rapist is usually armed, and the crime is one of violence. One cannot stop an act of violence by screaming without risking getting even more violence. Screaming or calling on Jehovah might work only on those cases where the person was tricked into consent.
And, what about those cases where the rape was the result of coercion on the part of the hounders? Often, they are the ones doing the rapes. This is not statutory, since there is abuse of authority at work in these cases that intimidates the victim into consenting. That is the case with most of the pedophiles that work in that organization. They are on hounding calls and get the child or children separated from the parents. Then they attack, often in seconds, and if the victim screams, they will be silenced and threatened with getting disfellowshipped for "slander". Notably, the litter-ature tells people in this situation to call the cops. Then, when they do, they are threatened with slander charges. That is what totally defies common sense.
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drew sagan
That's a pretty helpful list nelly136, thanks for posting.