YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad

by nicolaou 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  nicolaou

  Let's assume for the moment that God decides what is good and what is bad.
  

  Does He 'a' choose what is good because it is obviously good or 'b' is it good simply because He says so?

  If 'a' then what is good is independant of God and He has no choice but to accept it as good.
  If 'b' then the definition of what is good is arbitrary - God could decide that child abuse was good and it would be because He said so.

  Clearly this is ridiculous because we all recognise child abuse to be a bad thing and that is why God would never label it as good. To recognise this however is to accept that we do not need God to determine for us what is good and what is bad.

  (Genesis 3:6-7) . . .So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it. 7Then the eyes of both of them became opened . . .

  God bless that snake!
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  skyking

  Damn apple.

  The only reason you can say this is because of that damn apple.
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  nicolaou

  Take the story of Abraham as an example.

  When told by God to kill his son Isaac he was faced with a choice - to obey (good) or disobey (bad). Perhaps Abraham reasoned that to disobey God was the worst thing a man could do so he draws his knife to slaughter his son.

  Why was God not outraged that Abraham failed this test - that he did not manage to reason for himself that to kill an innocent would be wrong no matter who gave the order?
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  llbh

  We could aproach this for another angle which I think y allude to in your opening gambit. Most cultures have siimilar baseline mories, like to kill is wrong. to steal is wrong. ...They then extraoplate this into Jurisprudential framework and form laws.

  Most religious beliefs impose a legal framework.

  Therefore the law should guide our choices, if we need it.

  llbh
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  Brother Apostate

  Why was God not outraged that Abraham failed this test - that he did not manage to reason for himself that to kill an innocent would be wrong no matter who gave the order?

  Abraham PASSED the test. The test was: will you put faith in me (God), even above your love for your son that I gave to you as a promise?

  Yes, FAITH is what the vast majority of humanity is lacking, yet, it is only by FAITH that any will inherit the promised kingdom.

  Abraham had faith that God, who gave him his son, would do what is right.

  We likewise should put faith in Him.

  BA- Exercising faith, and encouraging others to do so.
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  Gopher

  Why was God not outraged that Abraham failed this test - that he did not manage to reason for himself that to kill an innocent would be wrong no matter who gave the order?

  Apparently "God" does not want people to reason out for themselves what is good or bad. Obedience is good, disobedience is bad. (Blind faith is good, apparently -- that's the lesson from the story of Abraham and Isaac.)

  But then later in the Bible Paul wrote that Christians should have consciences able to distinguish between right and wrong.

  So the Bible teaches it both ways -- only God knows what is good, and yet you're also supposed to be mature enough to figure out right and wrong.

  But of course, that's a type of contradiction that you'd expect from a book written by a diverse group of men. And I'm not unduly criticizing the Bible here, just showing how difficult it can be to take all of it literally as the "word of God".
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  Chap

  Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV)
  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
  
  
  Luke 18:18-19 (KJV)
  And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? [19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
  
  
  
  
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  Gopher

  If God gives an order,

  How would we know if God is giving an order these days? How can we trust any human who says they understand what God's orders are, and so we should follow this supposed spiritual leader?

  And which God? There are so many different Gods that people honestly believe are telling them to do so many different things. Even within Christianity there are thousands of conflicting sects.

  God could clear all this up, but he's been noticeably silent for thousands of years, or forever.
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  Chap

  Gopher wrote:
  
  "How would we know if God is giving an order these days? How can we trust any human who says they understand what God's orders are, and so we should follow this supposed spiritual leader?"
  
  
  
  
  But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. [9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. [10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. [11] But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. [12] And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
  
  
  
  
  
  As for Abraham: The Bible records that God first revealed himself to Abraham some 35 years before God gave the order to put Isaac on the alter as a sacrifice. It wasn't as if some stranger told him to do it. I think he was certain it was God otherwise he wouldn't have done it.
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  jwfacts

  Yes, FAITH is what the vast majority of humanity is lacking, yet, it is only by FAITH that any will inherit the promised kingdom.

  Brother Apostate - No, Faith is what the vast majority of humanity have; and it is Faith (adherence to beliefs unproven) that is the cause of the vast majority of human problems. As soon as a person is willing to follow something unproven, then they are prone to having their belief of what is right or wrong manipulated by people that claim to represent God.

  Nicoloau - good thought provoking point. If something is inherently good we do not need God to define it as such, which is why Athiests are in practice as moral as religious followers.