Critics

by abcde 30 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  joelbear

  I wholeheartedly agree that Jehovah's Witnesses offer some good things. Speaking skills, a structured environment with support mechanisms (effectiveness varies from locale to locale), a detailed description of a future reward for work well done (no contract on delivery time though).

  As with all things, one must analyze the value of the offer versus the cost. For some the deal makes sense, for others it doesn't.

  This board discusses the value vs cost of the decision every day of the year. People who believe they have gotten a good deal are free to come here and share that with people. People who believe the Watchtower contract they made was not a good deal are free to disagree with them here.

  If you are a witness and think its a great deal (benefit vs cost) please share it. Clearly that is the best way to attract people to your way of thinking.

  This board offers both sides of the story as opposed to www.watchtower.org which only offers one side.

  Unfortunately for the Watchtower Society, their representation in the debate here is not very effective. The great number of people who would be capable of debating the issues from the other side choose to pretend the debate doesn't exist or that debate of the issues is not practical.

  Most people simply won't make a decision based on only one side of an argument.

  I welcome people to tell me their positive stories regarding their experience in the Watchtower. I want to hear their side of the story.

  Joel
• 

  closer2fine

  Alphabet soup anyone?

  closer
• 

  abcde

  Joel,Where can you find a better hope for the future for people?Its either Hell,Heaven,paradise,nothingness.Im leaning too paradise and heaven.
• 

  ianao

  Here's a hope:

  Live life to the fullest, then die.

  THE END.

  Simple, eh?
• 

  JanH

  abcde,

  Joel,Where can you find a better hope for the future for people?

  Well, the Islamic paradise at least sounds better than the sex-less park-picnic "paradise" of the JWs. Would that make you want to convert to Islam?

  It is of course totally irrelevant what afterlife hopes a religion can promise. The fact is that all those promises are fantasies made by delusional dreamers. Being a JW doesn't get you to JW paradise any more than being a Muslem ever gets you to the Islamic paradise. When by end of eternity you're still dead, you don't get back the one life you wasted knocking on doors.

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
• 

  joelbear

  Just because you believe in heaven or paradise doesn't make them real.

  There is no proof that heaven exists.

  There is no proof that paradise will exist.

  Paradise is a promise. A promise is only as good as the willingness and ability of the person making the promise to keep it.

  So, in the end, its a contract that two entities enter into. One of these entities is the Watchtower Society who promises that it is the earthly representative of Jehovah God and can in that capacity communicate his promises to the world. The other is individuals who choose to associate themselves with the Watchtower and conduct their lives according to its rules and regulations. There is a cost involved to this association.

  The Watchtower argues two points.

  1) That the cost will be made up by the eventual reward (die from no blood transfusion, be killed or imprisoned by a government for refusing military or alternative service, being killed in Malawi for not purchasing a political card, not pursuing a college education, not having children, etc. etc. etc. etc.)

  2) That there is no real cost to being a Jehovah's Witness, that it is all a benefit.

  People here basically make two points.

  1) That the cost is not worth the reward. Many question whether the cost is necessary to receive the reward. Others question the validity of there being a reward at all.

  2) That there is a real cost to being a Jehovah's Witness, that the burden on their emotional and mental health from the regulations, rules, shunning, peer pressure to perform, lack of support from appointed shephards, etc. etc. etc.

  If you are in favor of the Watchtower Society, then post your reasons. Tell us how your life has been improved by being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You are free to do so. The difference in telling this story here rather than at a Witness convention is that you will be met with poignant questions rather than polite applause.

  As far as whether there are better alternatives, that is an individual decision. Everyone's circumstances differ.

  The alternative I have chosen is simple. Lead a good life by being honest, fair and kind to people. Forgive them when they hurt you. Be honestly sorry when you screw up and hurt them.

  I do not hope for a future reward. I seek to be satisfied with the present rewards of living a good life.

  Joel
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Abode,

  You said,
  

  Its easy too criticize a religion.Any person can do that.Trash talking isnt accepted that well amongst the majority of people.Why not find something better too offer people.Now that would be a better thing too do.This board will probably fizzle out after a while.

  
  You should send a copy of this to the society, which has NOTHING but criticism to offer for other religions.
  Something positive to say about the Society? Well, many of the rank and file are sincere, though sincerely mislead. How's that for poitive.
  Or how about this positive comment.

  I'm Positive the Society wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the head.

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  proplog2

  People in this forum seem overly critical because all of the defenders left. There are some excellent arguments here that are crying out for a JW rebuttal. Many here have exhausted themselves trying to get a response from the Watchtower. The Watchtower doesn't even address the most important arguments. There's a lot of new stuff on the table that they ought to defend.

  Truth is truth, not because of who says it but because it can be defended against "all" arguments.
• 

  pettygrudger

  abcde: Perhaps you should send this whole thread to your local elder - and then see what kind of "trash talk" you receive. The next meeting, think about your own words while listening to the sermons and the "trash talk" that is said over and over again about anything that is not JW stamped and approved.

  Its easy to trash talk here - we all learned from the best.
• 

  Dan B

  Abcdef raises a good point. It is easy to criticize too much. I think there is a danger in being 100% negative, to the point of actually grabbing at straws to make the JWs look bad.

  I have in mind the whole issue of the hidden pictures in JW literature. Sure, I've seen them too, but does this alone mean the WT society is run by Satan? How many businesses have employees that do stupid things (like putting these pictures in). I'm sure that's what happened, and it snuck by the half sleeping proof readers. Dwelling upon issues like this, I think anyway, doesn't help our credibility.

  But back to the point... The JWs have enough faults which are valid, and if we stick to the serious legitimate problems, we will have much better success at helping people see the real truth.

  Just my humble opinion... BTW, Abcdef, I hope you stick around here. I enjoy your posts.

  Dan