by abcde 30 Replies latest jw friends
Abcde: You need to read Ray Franz's "In search of Christian Freedom" I was feeing alot like you do now. This book will help put it all in place for you.....
Erasmus (1520 AD): "If we want truth, every person ought to be free to speak what they think without fear."
Hello ABCDE,
I agree. I am especially impressed with the religion of Taleban.
They are no doubt beyond any criticism. And they offer the best known religious hope in the world, Martyr death.
Norm.
After laughing my ass off at JANH's post(it just struck me as funny); I had a really profound moment(could be the chemicals from the laugh) that I am having trouble putting into words.
I am going to start thinking more about what really matters to me and how I can make the most of my years on this earth. I really want to take advantage of everything available too me now. -om
abcde, please, I very much want your thoughts on this.
You wrote "Joel,Where can you find a better hope for the future for people?Its either Hell,Heaven,paradise,nothingness.Im leaning too paradise and heaven."
Can you define your definition of "better hope"?
The question you asked Joelbear would seem to imply you are asking some of those "life" questions. I have many thoughts on this but I would like you to clarify 'better hope' before I respond.
Thanks.
In the meantime, you left out reincarnation. And others could suggest still more alternatives.
4horseman,A better hope too me means living a better life than I do now(no more emotional problems,awful news,etc.....,and for others too live a better life as well.This life is awful for some people.
abcde.
We share the same hope. I hope for more peace, a better life for all, a world where everyone works together and shares the resources and lives happily ever after. My favorite song is Imagine by John Lennon.
I am a dreamer.
I just realize that dreams don't always come true.
I try to make my little corner of the world more peaceful, but never succeed. People like to fight. People like to compete and win. People like to gain as much resources for themself as they can. People will do anything to do this.
I used to believe god would come and fix everything. I believed the Watchtower's promise until I realized they were just like everyone else. It was a heartbreaking realization.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
The Watchtower Society has created many cynics.
Joel
abcde;
Look, believeing that great skyman kiss it all better might be a nice hope, a better hope than being born, living, and dying.
But, how GOOD a hope one has is irrelevent.
How VALID a hope one has is very important.
I, after being raised a Dub for almost thirty years, in a very spiritually strong family, decided I needed to find out more, as I felt the life I was living was not mine.
As a result of that research I came to the conclusion that however GOOD the hope offered by the JW's, it is not VALID.
I also came to the conclusion that all religous HOPES were that; HOPES.
I HOPE I will win the Lottery on Saturday. I KNOW I will go to work on Monday.
Now, see the difference?
I might not go to work on Monday, but probably will.
I might win the Lottery on Saturday, but I probably won't.
Religous beliefs provide, for me, an even less certain chance of fulfillment than a Lottery ticket. I know the Lottery exists, there is no doubt, it's provable objectively and scientifically, I know people who do the Lottery have a statistical chance of winning. I cannot 'prove' to the same standards, any religous belief.
So your talk of 'trash talking' and 'better hope' is essentially meaningless to me.
The JW's present themselves as unalloyed absolute truth. No other religion is valid, dissent is impossible. Yet they have no 'proof' of their truth, BUT still require people to act as though their every pronouncement was from god, even if they required behaviour is detrimental in the here-and-now, on the basis of an unproven hope.
I think that deserves 'trash talking' as it is a load of trash.
It's worse than the religions that at least allow for other ways to god and a mulitplicity of faithways, as at least they are hinest enough to allow the benefit of doubt, even though their faith may be as strong as that of a Witness.
Open your mind...
Keep on rocking in the free world...
Hi abcde,
The biggest critisism you could give a religion is that its beliefs are "wrong" and that God doesnt approve of them.
The only beliefs we know to be "wrong" in any religion are those which *in the action they produce* cause harm. So we can critisise if we see these beliefs causing people harm.
That is why it is justified to critisise the Jehovahs Witness view of blood transfusions, because it has harmed people and taken away their precious life. The views on blood have changed too, so those who died years ago neednt have died (which is proof of the falsity of the belief - it doesnt stand the test of time). Similarly other teachings of the JWs which cause harm to people can be assessed.
We can do this with any religion and be justified. People can believe what they want to, but if they ACT on their belief to the harm of others then that is wrong. If they promote others to believe it and THEY harm others, that is wrong.
Constructive critisism is needed. You should be open to it, and be happy that people care enough to point out where your beliefs may harm you.
Jehovahs witnesses, however, mostly critisise other religions on what they believe, even if that doctrine does no harm to anyone. They say that the believers of so-called "false things" will die at the hand of God. Surely thats the worse form of critisism?
Sirona
You can pick at things.Jws have some things going for them too obviously.They do screwup no doubt,but hasnt everyone?
Its an imperfect world.Its a mess in pakistan,india & other places.
Show me a perfect religion.you cant.
until i find something better,im hesitant on abandoning it.This world is going down even more.
You said,
Show me a perfect religion.you cant.
Now that's some really good critical thinking, abcde! And it's our point, exactly! However, it's what JW's claim to be. If you question them, then (much like the Taliban) they will impose punishment (even shunning) on you! Don't you want freedom to think, to breathe?
Then you said,
This world is going down even more.This is a matter of perspective. The world has had "signs of the end" for several centuries. If you study history, you'll find that to be the case.
I don't blame you to be hesitant on abandoning JW's. I'm not even saying you should. I'm just saying you should really have reasons for one decision or another, not just clinging to a belief because "nothing better" seems to exist.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
