by Junction-Guy 150 Replies latest jw friends
Conservatives feel that it is okay to censor ideas or art they disagree with or find offensive and voices that disagree with them. Liberals know that censorship is the biggest threat to democracy.
And conservatives don't have a corner on censorship. There's alot of "liberal" censorship as well.
Look,. I don't subscribe to alot of the BS from either side. Michael Moore? Every bit as much of a dumbass liar as Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh.
Hey conservatives, you haven't tried to teach-a-man-to-fish in a VERY long time, maybe never. Hell, conservatives, we can't even try to give a man (and his children) beginner fishing rods w/o you self-absorbed, I-got-mine fu**ers trying to find a way to A) get a cut of the beginner fishing rod market, and B) make sure that the man doesn't get a free (:gasp: oh the horror!) beginners fishing rod unless he is at some ridiculously low threshold for poverty. Hard times at the river lately? Don't come to us looking for bait, you, you poor person, you should have bought bait-fish insurance!
"Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime" is a great axiom; too bad for conservatives that political liberals are the only people who even attempt to live up to that value. Government doesn't need to be "small", it needs to be exactly whatever goddamned size it needs to be to work most efficiently for the good of the society it serves, or did you forget just what the hell this was all about in the first place?
"For some reason they just remind me of Jehovah's Witnesses."
"Those that hate christianity, those that believe in Atheism, those that are against defending our country, those that want to ban the pledge of allegiance, those that want to remove God from all public places. These are what I call liberals."
So, according to Junction Guy, Jehovah's Witnesses hate Christianity, are atheistic, and want God removed from from all public places. Yeah, you would do really well debating liberals... NOT!
First of all, liberals don't necessarily hate Christianity. Many of them, maybe even a majority are actually Christian. In any case, is it your foregone conclusion that Christianity is true? If it's not true, then wouldn't you want to be against it?
Liberals are not necessarily atheist... but the Best ones are!!
I am a liberal, but I also believe in defending my country. If it ever came to invasion (a real one with armies and stuff, not a dubious jet crashing into a building) I would not hesitate to tke up arms and defend my home country. Now, IMPERIALISTIC INVASIONS OF sovreign countries is another matter. I don't support imperialism. A conservative will probably say that every single military action on the part of the US was completely justified and not imperialistic. I do not agree.
As far as the pledge of allegiance: do you pledge your allegiance to God or to country? You can't do both. Absolute allegiance, by definition, is something you can only give to one cause orperson or entity. Or according to the pledge, you are actually pledging your allegiance to a FLAG. You can only give your allegiance to ONE thing. So is it God or is it country? You will probably reply: God is American, if I know conservatives (read "old world") at all.
As far as taking God out of the pledge, ask yourself, "Have we, as the human race, proven that God exists?" No. It has not been universally established that there is such a thing as God. So, why talk about something that we don't even know exists? Let alone, including a mythological character in a solemn pledge. That just cheapens the pledge, right? It would be presumptuous to include something that may just be a myth in a solemn pledge.
Here's my list of differences between liberals and conservatives. I will refer to liberals, as I like to do, as "transformatives" (the actual opposite of conservatives. I find "liberal" to be a loaded and misleading label.) Understand that these are generalizations, and of course do not represent ALL consrvatives or transformatives.
Transformatives: World, or universal viewpoint. More objective.
Consrvatives: American viewpoint. More subjective.
Transformatives: War as last resort and only to genuinely defend oneself, not to gain wealth or prosperity or to destablize other nations to keep them buying weapons from us for their civil wars that we caused or encouraged.
Conservatives: Have never opposed so much as a single war for ANY reason. Generally open to the idea that war is a good way to solve problems.
Transformatives: Do not easily trust their leaders. Demand proof before belief.
Conservatives: Will do just about anything their leaders ask them to do without questioning them, especially if they are asking them to join a war effort
Transformatives: For progress, change, improvement, evolution.
Conservatives: Generally think that the answers were held in the "old days and old ways." Generally resistant to change (hence consrvative).
Transformatives: Base their morality on what is evident from the natural world, Socratic absolute morality, intrinsic and self evident morality without need of God. They do not commit morally wrong acts because they are "just wrong." We admit we don't know why or how it is wrong, we just know that it is. It is also based largely on harm. Things are wrong basically because they are harm against an unwilling victim.
Consrvatives: Base their morality on a Jewish book of historical fiction. Morality is more a list of do's and don't's from what they imagine is an invisible man from outer space, or a very insecure and picky control freak - God.
Transformatives: Against slavery.
Consrvatives: Supported slavery.
Transformatives: For civil rights.
Consrvatives: Opposed civil rights legislation for many, many years. Fought tooth and nail to prevent equality and desegregation.
Transformatives: For women's right to vote.
Consrvatives: opposed women's rights on the basis of scripture.
Transformatives: For multiculturalism.
Consrvatives: Against multiculturalism (read "immigration")
Transformatives: Want church kept out of politics. Want to be known as a nation open and accepting to all peoples, that endorses no one religion in particular.
Consrvatives: Want church doctrine to RULE politics. (God in pledge, oppose gay marriage, abortion, they want to be known as a Christian nation)
Transformatives: Trust science because it can PROVE its claims by experiment. They do not typically venture into what is not provable, like God's existence.
Conservatives: Do not trust provable science, but put explicit trust in an ancient book of fiction as well as other unprovable doctrines. Put what some guy SAID thousands of years ago above what we can prove in a laboratory today.
Transformatives: Embrace the strange, unknown and new. Spirit of exploration. No such thing as "taboo." nothing is sacred. No such thing as blasphemy. No concept of holy dirt (land). No need to fight over Jerusalem. If God exists at all, he does not favor Jews or Americans.
Consrvatives: Afraid of the unknown,or new or different. Spirit of avoidance of strange things. Labels things "taboo." Fears blasphemy. Things like land (dirt) and sex are sacred and attached to long lists of rules about them. Holy land. Believe in the concept of Jerusalem. Must fight for Jerusalem. God sides with Israel and America.
Transformatives: Main value is 'care or nurturance." Nurturant parent metaphors.
Conservatives: Main value is strength. Strict father metaphors.
Transformatives: More scientific about beliefs. No concept of sacred or cherished beliefs to cling on to. Change their beliefs based on available evidence. Not emotionally attached to beliefs. Nothing to fight or kill or die for.
Consrvatives: More apologistic about beliefs. More faithful and emotional about beliefs. Beliefs are sacred and cherished and must be defended to the death, even if it means killing people or dying a sacrificial death.
Someone else want to continue this list? This is kind of fun.
To all of my non brain dead friends that have arrived at this lovely little debate thread, a little musical diversion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snLFuGVLmGM
Sums it up nicely!
JK
Those that hate Christianity, those that believe in Atheism, those that are against defending our country, those that want to ban the pledge of allegiance, those that want to remove God from all public places. These are what I call liberals.
Those that think Atheist aren't Americans, those that want to consult god when making laws, those that want force their beliefs on to science through government schools, those that try to say the founding father intended this to be a christian country, those that start wars for religious and profit motivated reasons, those that bankrupt this country with a war that can't admit they lied to start and then lost lost it through their own incompetence, those that allow the hiring of illegals; and then are shocked, and try to jail illegals, or deport them when it becomes a huge political problem, and liability. These are what I call Conservatives!
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me, Dave.
And I say that with great love and compassion.
"Conservative talk show radio host"
I can't think of a lower level occupation. Yes, I would rather host a show like Jerry Springer's.
Conservative talk shows are like "professional" wrestling. Fake. Phony.
Serious defenders of liberal thinking are completely screened out of those shows.
You have to make the phone screener think you are about to place a big juicy kiss on the host's anus before they will let you on.
As soon as you start making your point they push the squelch button so they can talk over anything you might say.
The only liberals they let through to the host are those that sound mentally deficient.
The result? People listening to Conservative talk radio think liberals are idiots.
Very soon the FCC is going to force stations that broadcast on the peoples airways to be fair in their presentation of political thinking.
So under Bush you get back $500 a year. Of course you make less per hour than you did a DECADE ago when Clinton was in office which amounts to many thousands a year in some case tens of thousands but hell you got back your 500 this year right?!
here's the thing if you go back and check out junction guys post he actually started as a pretty level headed down to earth guy however in the last few years he's gone more and more to the christian extreme and his post have reflected that. Unfortunately he's become almost unreadable insulting...
I've never heard a more stupid reason for supporting the president than "he gave me 500 bucks!!" The man lies us into a war that throws us into record debt and makes the US dollar worth less than the candian. He calls the Constitution of the United States a "goddamn piece of paper." He authorized the illegal wire-tapping of American citizens, violating the 4th amendment. He hasn't gone after the chief orchestrator of 9/11, Osama Bin Laden and even admits he isn't concerned about it! His policies have caused a huge uprising of resentment for the US and our ideals throughout the world which has directly enabled up-and-coming dictators like Vladimir Putin and Hugo Chavez to seize power. Russia is going to become a totalitarian fascist state again simply because Russians want to distance themselves from us. Bush and his policies are responsible for the mess and the danger our country now faces. He has allowed Dubai, an extremist fundamentalist muslim state that FUNDS TERRORISM to have control over our ports. We are not safer now than we were before 9/11 because Bush has escalated the threat. He is cutting benefits to the troops and letting them die in poorly-run, filthy state hospitals while the prisoners at Guantanamo enjoy free health care.
You're willing to give up your freedom and decency by supporting this man all for a measley 500 bucks? What a sick, sorry excuse for a person you are.
So under Bush you get back $500 a year. Of course you make less per hour than you did a DECADE ago when Clinton was in office which amounts to many thousands a year in some case tens of thousands but hell you got back your 500 this year right?!
So you are telling me the guy bribes the people with tax cuts!
