Why do bible thumpers have to immagine a God who test. (page 6)

IMHO

Two points: The original test on Adam and Eve was not a sufferance 'just' a test of obedience. Like telling your children you can have as many of those cakes on that plate as you want but don't touch the one on this plate as it's mine. Secondly: If we can become better people by overcoming 'trials' and 'tests' are those that have had an easier life lesser persons or did they just start off better. NO ONE is better off or stronger after an illness or an accident. Tests that cause suffering are destructive and damaging and have nothing to do with God.

Liberty

Welcome IMHO,

Adam and Eve's test from God was nothing like a loving parent would EVER do to their children. God's test was very much like having candy injected with a slow acting poison and then hiring someone to tell the children that the candy is good and that they should eat some because it really will not kill them (true even, at least not right away) and better yet that the candy tastes good and is magic so that if they eat it it will make them smarter too. All of this temptation is set in motion while the parent (God) is away so it is even more difficult to resist. Adam upon seeing that Eve did NOT die when she touched and ate the fruit was even in a more vulnerable position since he knew God had lied about the fruit killing them.

I never left my child with poisons which looked like candy at all, let-alone in easy reach and then demand they not eat it. Nor did I get another adult to encourage the child to disobey and encourage them to eat the poison while I was away. Nor did I have another child who tried the candy first "proving" to the other child that it was indeed "safe" to touch and eat. The intense cruelty and inticing bait of such an evil decietful trap is easy for any rational person to see unless they have been conditioned by years of Christian apologetics.

Loving parents go out of their way to insure temptations are limited and that danger is far out of the reach of a child. No sane person would create such a clever and fatal trap just to see if their children will obey them.

BurnTheShips

Liberty,

traditional "Fundie" Christianity.

Fundie Christianity is not traditional. It is an innovation.

Burn

Liberty

Hi Burn,

I don't understand your last post? Something which is well over 100 years old is a tradition.

funkyderek

BurnTheShips:

God does not do wrong to anyone. That would be contradictory. If God did wrong he could not be God.

Agreed. But by modern enlightened standards, as opposed to the primitive standards of the tribes who compiled the Old Testament, the character of God (AKA YHWH etc.) is a pretty awful person. That's why most modern forward-thinking people reject him entirely or at least try to make excuses for his appalling behaviour.

The things spoken of in Scripture as tests, proofs, or temptations (the greek word is peirasmos, trial, test) from God are things God has allowed rather than caused to happen as a result of people’s sins. God does tempt/test/prove people in the sense that he allows them to encounter temptation or adversity, but he himself does not cause these things.

So God allowed Abraham to tie up his son and prepare to murder him, but he didn't cause it? Why did he give Abraham explicit instructions to do exactly that? Why, when Abraham had shown himself prepared to do what God had asked did God say: "Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son" and because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you [...] because you have obeyed me." (Genesis 22, NIV)

Now I don't know what Hebrew words are used or what gets lost in translation but that sounds to me like God testing Abraham. It's certainly a test. It was initiated by God. In doing as God asked, Abraham appears to have passed the test and is rewarded as a result.

So, does the biblegod test his servants or not?

Elemental

It's not difficult to understand if God is cruel and unjust. It is impossible to reconcile with a God of loving kindness, mercy, and justice.

Only to an individual who is narrow-minded. I have never had an issue reconciling it. It is not my fault that you are limited in your thinking.

doofdaddy

What about poor old Job and the family.

All doing the "right" thing worshipping god. God listens the the "Great Deceiver" and let's satan rip them to shreds, to prove he is REALLY REALLY TRULY faithful.

Interesting. Sounds like a Monty Python skit

shopaholic

As JWs, we were taught that God does not test he simply allows one to be tested. According to the book of James in Bible, such adversities and challenges will make us more faithful and stronger in the end if let such test run their course.

Well, that just doesn't make any sense. If I knew someone was going to harm you or was out to "get" you and did nothing, just watched and simply told you "I could stop this but I will not as you may learn something", what type of friend\sister\aunt\cousin\coworker\person would I be? According to the bible, I would be just like God.

So if you ever find yourself in a JC meeting, for whatever reason, simply let the elders know that Satan was testing you and in obedience with James 1:2-4 you had to let it run its course.

If a JW ever asks to borrow money, tell them no as their situation may be a test that they need to endure so that their faith will be more complete.

If a JW calls and says they miss seeing you at the meetings...I think you get my point.

See...anyone can twist the scriptures.

Spook

The "Testing Hypothesis" is the one of the only ways theists can avoid the Problem Of Evil and the Problem of Divine Hiddenness.

Why do bible thumpers have to immagine a God who test.

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