They have to be laying the ground work for the fact that 144,000 is symbolic and not literal
144 000 blasted by the MATH (WT lying again)
by hamsterbait 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Nathan Natas
Thanks for the number, Hamsterbait! Some time ago I discussed this unnatural phenomenon here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/24950/1.ashx
For those who are curious about the numbers or wish to build their own charts:
1935 52465
1936 24850
1937 35172
1938 39225
1939 29385
1940 27711
1941 23989
1942 24035
1943 23577
1944 22648
1945 22328
1946 27587
1947 26449
1948 25395
1949 24312
1950 22723
1951 21619
1952 20221
1953 19183
1954 17884
1955 16815
1956 16302
1957 15628
1958 15037
1959 14511
1960 13911
1961 13284
1962 12714
1963 12292
1964 11953
1965 11550
1966 11266
1967 10981
1968 10619
1969 10368
1970 10500
1971 10384
1972 10350
1973 10523
1974 10723
1975 10550
1976 10187
1977 10080
1978 9762
1979 9727
1980 9564
1981 9601
1982 9529
1983 9292
1984 9081
1985 9051
1986 8927
1987 8808
1988 8685
1989 8734
1990 8869
1991 8850
1992 8683
1993 8693
1994 8617
1995 8645
1996 8757
1997 8795
1998 8756
1999 8755
2000 8661
2001 8730
2002 8760
2003 8565
2004 8570
2005 8524
2006 8758
2007 9105 -
Must obey!
This is amazing but it rests on the assumption that 5% have been dying each year. That does seem pretty high. I would like to see the figures based on only a 2% death rate.
And why only go back to 1935? What about all the partakers from 1879 (first Watchtower ever) to 1935? There were thousands then too.
If Jesus looked down on the Bible Students in 1914-19 and decided they were good enough to bestow the honour of being his only true organisation upon, then they must be good enough for him since right up to now! So you can add all the Bible Students since 1919 also!
The Society must surely know that the numbers game is up...the 144k figure has long since been exceeded! They have all the stats on this...they must know it!
They will eventually have no choice but to make the 144k a symbolic number as more JW's notice this.
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stillajwexelder
There is no question now at all in my mind what is happening.
1) We get a QFR saying they can not be certain that 1935 was the end of the general calling
2) We get new light about the Generation applying to surviving annointed on earth
- This will be seen as Jahs blessing of advancing light - they are gearing up for 144,000 being symbolic as I said in my previouis post.
As they say - watch this space - or this board!!
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hamsterbait
Must obey -
I did the entire calculation again just for you using an average life of 70, which gives an expected death rate of 1.43% each year.
The final figures I came up with were:
14 707 dead annointed from 1936 -2007. Over the period 52 312 started taking the emblems.
In 1936 there were 24 850 partakers, which means that more began taking the emblems after 1935 than all those in 1935.
So the "door closing "in 1935 was a complete myth all along and the WT knew it.
Assuming a drop of 1.43% for 1935, the total taking the emblems in the 71 years is 68 123.
If the drop of 27 615 in 1935 -1936 is dead partakers then the total is 94 989.
What is remarkable is the huge numbers being called after 1935.
HB
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Mary
1936 - 24 850, which means 27 615 either died or left.
Actually, since this was the year after the 'big announcement' in 1935, I think a good portion of these people simply stopped partaking of the emblems.
This is amazing but it rests on the assumption that 5% have been dying each year. That does seem pretty high. I would like to see the figures based on only a 2% death rate.
I thought 5% was fairly high too, until I looked up and it appears that a 5% mortality rate for those 65 and over, is correct: http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/111riskg.html Now of course, not everyone who was partaking of the emblems in 1935 was 65 years old, but the mortality rate/life expectancy was much lower in 1935 than what it is today, so I don't think a 5% mortality rate would be unreasonable.
I did the chart below from a different angle: I took the number of partakers to correspond to the year from 1936 to 2000 (sorry, I couldn't get the data range any larger to include up to 2007). I then factored in the 5% mortality rate to show how many SHOULD be partaking. As you can see below, the actual number partaking far outnumbers those that SHOULD be partaking. According to my calculations, by the year 2000, only 886 people should have been taking the bread and the wine. In reality, as shown below, ten times that number are partaking:
Hmmmm........something's not adding up......
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Black Man
upping this...........
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Chalam
Well no doubt the maths is totally wrong from the WTO as none of the 144 000 have been sealed yet-this is during the tribulation period.
Also they are quite clearly all Jewish.
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
Revelation 14
The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
Also, they clearly have God's name on their foreheads and they have not taken the Mark Of The Beast (666) on their foreheads or right hand
Revelation 13
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
This clearly hasn't happened yet.
So as difficult to understand as Revelation can be, even a child can can see that the JW doctrine on the 144 000 is complete nonsense. Weird it is one of the first few things that they usually mention to me when they arrive at my door!
Regards,
Stephen -
Must obey!
It seems that the most conservative estimate puts the total number of new partakers from the late 1880's to present at about 100k easily. The early Bible Students from 1879 to 1935 must be included, since the Bible Students were chosen by Jesus in 1919 (aherrmbollox)...something the Watchtower teaches.
That leaves barely any room for all the thousands from pentecost 33CE to 1879.
Clearly the 144k literal interpretation is a sham. (The only way out of it is for the Watchtower to assert that not all partakers are genuine, that only about 50% are genuine as someone said earlier, but would they put that in print?? hardly.)
Their 144k interpretation will have to be dumped before too long if the number of partakers keeps increasing at the rate it has in the last two years. It all depends on that.
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What-A-Coincidence
great post
