Debunking the Reagan Myth

by nvrgnbk 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • 5go
    5go
    Then you hate thuis country Burn the Ships.... did his presidency help this country? Then you love a man and hate your country.

    Finally I get an answer via PMed response. Dawg made a good point on people who love Reagan. We have proved he was a horrible president even by conservative standards. If you love Reagan the cult figure the greatest america basher ever. Then you hate this country and it's government that doesn't believe in his ideas. Which is what I constantly hear form the right they hate Americans that vote against conservative ideas and you hate the government the carries out those wishes. Which happens to be the majority of Americans and the US government currently. They also deride institions set up by the founding fathers like the old goverment run postal system which was Ben Franklin's idea (not to mention he was the first post master general of the US)

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4088845

    Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to add this author to your Ignore listWed Jan-16-08 07:46 PM
    Original message
    With all this Reagan talk, I am reminded of a Star Trek episode...
    Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 08:28 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter Reading some of the Obama-Reagan threads, it seems that there is enthusiasm for using Reagan's method of appeal in a good cause. What is overlooked is that the misty, hackneyed Chris Matthews fantasy of Ronald Reagan's appeal has nothing to do with Reagan's actual appeal. The Reagan myth... hopeful, optimistic guy who made everyone feel good... was constructed in the mid 1980s, starting with some matyrdom mythology when he was shot, then becoming fixed fake-history between the validation of the 1984 landslide re-election and the onset of Iran-contra.

    Reagan was a scary man before he became senile. He wasn't America's favorite uncle, he was a noted extremist, and often described with that word... the guy who wanted to blow up the world. Reagan was the guy who said in the 1960s (I think while running for governor of California), referring to student anti-war protesters, "If they want a bloodbath, I'll give it to them."

    Reagan's real appeal, the appeal that ultimately crushed Carter in 1980, was classic nationalist militarism. The optimism was nostalgic in character, not the actual optimism one finds in ages of progress. It was the sentimental, delusional optimism of an old bore telling embellished war stories, or of someone who has crawled inside a bottle of booze... let's pretend it's the 1950s when we didn't have all these problems. And the problems? Women... blacks... hippies... Iran. (Boy is that eerily familiar.)

    When Reagan was running it was a fad to wear T-shirts that said "FUCK IRAN," or with a picture of Mickey Mouse in an Uncle Sam uniform flipping he bird, and saying, "Hey Iran!" And it was widely accepted that all black people were on welfare, and were pretty much the problem. That was the environment. We were humiliated abroad, and in the midst of a profound backlash against the 1955-1975 hard charging civil rights era. People felt that abortion and pornography and mixed marriage were ruining America. The Reagan Democrats were all white people who decided to go over to the the racist side for a while. (Forced integration of schools was a major social flash-point, and not in the south as much as in cities like Boston.)

    It was a classic breeding ground for the iron triangle of militarist nationalism, social conservatism and racism.

    Militarist nationalism and traditionalist reactionary nostalgia and nostalgia for segregation... these things go hand in hand. They form the basis of the right-wing political style. They are a powerful mixture. That kind of nationalism is not, however, a transferable commodity. It can not be harnessed for good.

    Reading of the admiration for Reagan's ability to move the country, I am left to think that some folks believe Reagan could have moved the country in either direction. That is not how it works. You can't give people a hard-on by cutting the military. You cannot comfort people who reject social progress by offering more of the same.

    If anyone on our side really wanted to co-opt the emotional methods of nationalism they would quickly find that it doesn't work without the hate. The people most turned on by the Reagan era were not turned on by wholesome pride and optimism. They were turned on by a resurgence of racial pride, not national pride. It became cool to be white. And they were optimistic that the tumbling collective prestige of white people could be reversed.

    Reagan's rationale for tax cuts was that we could make up the lost money by cracking down on the looting of the treasury by idle blacks. He spoke of "welfare queens" who had a fleet of cadillacs, and laughed their asses off at all the hard working white people whose money they misappropriated to blow on drugs and jewelry. It was a well developed fantasy of resentment of the poor, including the bizarre idea that the poor had more money than all us "good" people who do all the work. And AIDS? Something gay people cooked up to try to murder all us straight people.

    If we are to harness the awesome power of Reagan's political style, which wretched minority will we blame for all of society's ills? Because that famous Reagan optimism doesn't work without a scape-goat. Welfare Queens, Iranians, homosexuals? What "evil empire" will give our lives meaning, as participants in a Manichean slug-fest for all the marbles?

    So I am left thinking of the Star Trek episode where the historian tries to run a planet just like Nazi Germany, which was a pretty dynamic mode of social organization, but without all the bad stuff. In short order the society develops all the bad stuff of Nazi Germany because it's built into the system.

    Nicely put, IMO.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Burn, if you are really only 29, I suspect you will have a better command of the English language as time marches on. And I hope also that as you mature, you understand politics and its history better.

    And when you garner support? Where do you put it? In a literal storehouse? Do you understand what figurative means? And no, you didn't mean figurative when you used the word.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    We have proved he was a horrible president even by conservative standards.

    By the numbers:

    Please note also that in the 80s the US was still embroiled in the Cold War. During the heady 90s it seemed like we had seen "the end of history".

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    And when you garner support? Where do you put it? In a literal storehouse? Do you understand what figurative means? And no, you didn't mean figurative when you used the word.

    Sarcasm. And if you don't get it by 49, it is probably too late.

    Burn

  • 5go
    5go

    For Burn who thinks Bush gave us a great economy.

    No! he gave us another Savings and Loan scandal.

    http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/hardball-cramer-says-the-economy-is-bad-and-dc-won-t-admit-it/5988613/

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Sarcasm. And if you don't get it by 49, it is probably too late.

    Burn

    Sarcasm is most effective when it is done in a clever, witty way. For you to ask if there is a Reagan storehouse out there full of yuppies wasn't clever. It made you look silly.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    For burn who think Bush great us a better economy.

    Bush? Who is this thread about? Look up. Changing the subject?

    Nope he gave us another Savings and Loan scandal.

    Riiight. So Reagan ran those S&Ls? Reagan made the bad lending decisions on behalf of the S&Ls? Reagan was on the board of the S&Ls? Precisely how did Reagan "give is another Savings and Loan scandal" 5G0? I had a bad case of the chicken pox in '87. Was it Reagan's fault too?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Sarcasm is most effective when it is done in a clever, witty way. For you to ask if there is a Reagan storehouse out there full of yuppies wasn't clever. It made you look silly.

    So now it is my clumsy sarcasm and not your cranial density? Well thanks for caring about how I look.

    Later,

    Burn

  • 5go
    5go
    Riiight. So Reagan ran those S&Ls? Reagan made the bad lending decisions on behalf of the S&Ls? Reagan was on the board of the S&Ls? Precisely how did Reagan "give is another Savings and Loan scandal" 5G0? I had a bad case of the chicken pox in '87. Was it Reagan's fault too?

    Savings & Loan Bailout

    Reagan's "elimination of loopholes" in the tax code included the elimination of the "passive loss" provisions that subsidized rental housing. Because this was removed retroactively, it bankrupted many real estate developments made with this tax break as a premise. This with some other "deregulation" policies ultimately led to the largest political and financial scandal in U.S. history: The Savings and Loan crisis. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around USD$150 billion, about $125 billion of which was consequently and directly subsidized by the U.S. government, which contributed to the large budget deficits of the early 1990s.

    An indication of this scandal's size, Martin Mayer wrote, "The theft from the taxpayer by the community that fattened on the growth of the savings and loan (S&L) industry in the 1980's is the worst public scandal in American history. Teapot Dome in the Harding administration and the Credit Mobilier in the times of Ulysses S. Grant have been taken as the ultimate horror stories of capitalist democracy gone to seed. Measuring by money, [or] by the misallocation of national resources...the S&L outrage makes Teapot Dome and Credit Mobilier seem minor episodes." [29]

    John Kenneth Galbraith called it "the largest and costliest venture in public misfeasance, malfeasance and larceny of all time." [30]

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