Re: Suicide card

carla

I have a question about signing the suicide card. I'm not sure if my jw has signed the suicide card or not. I have not seen it in his wallet. What if something happened to him locally? Would the jw's know about right away and try to fight me? I am assuming yes. However, as his wife couldn't I say he had been having doubts for some time and let the chips fall where they may later? If something happened while traveling they would never know and I don't think I would have a problem if he was not conscious. Opinions? and no, I would not 'honor' any no blood nonsense. We have all seen how many have left to later feel that it was not biblical nor wise to reject blood at the whims of mere men.

Mrs. Witness

Carla,

I was so mad at my JW when we discussed this whole thing, I said I'd abide by his wishes. I know that if I didn't and he survived, he'd either be pissed at me or (and I doubt this) he'd see the error of his ways, say profuse "Thank You's" for saving his life and we'd ride off into the sunset without the WTBTS burden.

But seriously, I think that if he's unconscious, you, as his wife, can override his suicide card. That's a guess on my part, but I'm sure unless he had no hope of recovery, the doc's would err on the side of life. Also, I think the ~~idiots~~ nice men on the committee to keep JW's from blood wouldn't even have a say, but again, that's a guess.

And that's my opinion!

Mrs. Witness.

wanderlustguy

Get a family safe, put it in there.

AK - Jeff

Interesting question here.

I can't think of a suitable analogy at the moment. What comes to mind is this: If a woman believed that abortion was immoral, but her husband did not - in some circumstance where her ability to express her viewpoint was impossible, say as she lay unconscience, would the husband be morally correct to take the decision away from her? Order an abortion against what he knows she believes and has told him [or prepared medical documents to make sure of her wishes]? She may have even stated that she would prefer to die rather than to allow abortion to occur, and that if abortion was committed against her wishes, she would feel violated and dirty for the rest of her life.

Abortion is another matter of course - but the metaphor holds. He has expressed his will - it could cost him his life. Still, it is what he believes. I think it should be respected.

Please do not flame me on either the abortion analogy or my opinion. Don't misunderstand. I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are completely wrong on this doctrine. I HATE THE JW BLOOD DOCTRINE. My wife and I have both stated that we would happily accept blood should it be needed to to save our life. But if she had told me - in spite of her leaving Jw's alongside me - that she did not want blood, and signed some sort of legal document so stating her views - or if I was the one who had such a view - I hope that the other mate would act in accordance with those wishes.

On the other hand - one might discreetly inquire how strongly held the doctrine is for the individual. Perhaps the Jw mate would agree that if 'I could get away with it, I would accept blood rather than die'. That would change the entire perspective.

Good thread.

Jeff

Will Power

I stick by this one - it is AGAINST MY RELIGION to knowingly facilitate or contribute to an unnecessary death. so if you're gonna cry you'd rather die to show worship to the symbol of life, then do it without me, because I love you, real life and god over and above the symbol or "idol" of life to let you kill yourself under the influence of brainwashing regarding a doctrine that the man-made leadership is obviously trying to change as we speak judging from the new fraction checklist on the blood card. wp

WTWizard

This suicide card is another way of keeping people from exercising control. They are not guaranteed to die (often, they end up handicapped instead). And, it takes control away from the person receiving the treatment.

Worse yet, it also keeps the children from getting needed treatment. True, adults should be allowed the freedom to choose either for or against allopathic medicine, or to use it in conjunction with natural remedies. However, in most situations where blood is needed, it is critical and there is no time to use natural remedies. And, minors (even "mature(??)" minors) should have blood administered on a cost/benefit basis, not having it withheld just because of some religious doctrines.

I myself would not have blood in a stupid situation. Blood is serious medicine, and there are risks of type mismatches and infections. And taking blood can impair your immune system. In a situation where your blood levels are borderline and stable, this can be critical in deciding whether or not to accept blood. But, if one is going to die or become handicapped without the blood, it matters not what the side effects are. It is better to take a calculated risk in critical situations and accept the blood than accept certain death or disability. Children involved in serious blood loss situations are doubly at risk, and should be given the blood when needed.

carla

I won't flame you Jeff, however, I do not think the analogy is a good one in this instance. In the case of abortion it would be taking a life, that of a baby. In the case of giving blood it would be to save a life and possibly quality of life issues for both the jw and the non jw (soon to be caretaker). As I said I'm not sure where he stands on the issue. Last I saw was the 4 page blood questionaire only partially filled out. Guess he can't figure out which fractions of no blood he wants to take. I have no problem morally, ethically or otherwise in giving him blood should the need arise. Will he remain a jw his entire life? Who knows? Should he ever be in a life & death situation before he gets that chance nobody would ever know. He had expressed doubts about the blood issue once. As in many jw/ubm relationships some conversations are danced around or not discussed at all because we all know where those will take you.

AK - Jeff

Is it possible to find some well written arguments [ones that don't directly attack Jw theology] that you could ask him to consider? If he has shown some doubt in the past - he might be ready to start finding holes in the doctrine, and opt out of the card.

If he is of the sort with an open mind [or as open as Jw minds can get] would he dare look at ajwrb.org ? With the understanding that many other Jw's are having similar doubts?

I knew the analogy was flawed - sorry about that - .

Still - if my wife asked me not to let doctors administer chemo for instance - even though I knew that it would likely save her life - I would discuss it with her in depth - then I would abide by her wishes. I would not want to force her to accept medical treatment that she opposed. I just don't think that is in my purview - to over-impose my views in such matters. That is just me. I would likewise wish my desires of the same sort to be respected.

To some extent we are all deluded in our thinking about things aren't we? Not just jw's. Not just those in mind controlled cults. I respect life as much as anyone I know. I love my wife as much as anyone I know loves theirs. Still, I don't own her life, nor will I take her right to decide what is right away from her.

I will say this: That I would not feel the same about her refusal to give my child [or our grandchildren whom we are raising] blood. And in the matter of the potential of my children being left without a role model, I would bring those matters to bear heavily in trying to influence her to change her mind. I might even possibly be willing to leave and find another mate if I felt it impossible to live with certain decisions she might make of that nature. But I would never take away her free will to decide such things.

Just my 2 cents.

Jeff

carla

Well thanks for your thoughts. I'm not having this discussion any time soon if I have any say in the matter! ha, in fact no jw discussion is my hope these days. If I had a terminal illness I'm not sure I would even tell him. Guess I would hold out as long as possible.

I once asked long ago on a different board what the cong would do if they found out I was in an accident, the ex jw's said they would pray for my death. Nice huh? Not that I fear death, not fond of the process of dying but death itself doesn't bother me. I know where I'm going.

bite me

now they have suicide cards to go along with blood cards?

Re: Suicide card

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