Re: Suicide card (page 2)

sooner7nc

was committed against her wishes, she would feel violated and dirty for the rest of her life.

In the case of blood transfusions, the above may be true. Perhaps she would feel that her mate had let her down, or had cheated her out of some god-given right.

I may have to make that choice one day soon. My wife will be getting a kidney transplant one day soon, and this problem will rear it's ugly head undoubtedly. I think I can live with her feeling that I've betrayed her wishes. I won't like it but so be it, but I will not, I cannot, and I won't look my 8 year old son in the eye when it's all over knowing that I could have let the Dr's try one more thing that might have saved her, but didn't because a bunch of old assholes in Brooklyn told me I shouldn't.

2112

About 8 years ago my elder father had a quad by-pass, I went to the hospital to see him. There were three elders from his hall there and they stood in a line side by side a tried to prevent me from going in the hall way his room was on. I'm not a tough guy by any means, lucky for me my martial arts instructor/best friend was already there and overheard them ploting, he quickly convinced them to back off. They were so goofy looking shuffling from side to side while shoulder to shoulder trying to prevent me from seeing my dad. They did not want me to overide his no blood decision. The sadest part was that this was 2 days after dads surgery so there was no chance of a transfusion.

My best friend a few weeks later told my dad about the incident, which the elders denied so dad said they we were lying. Oh well!

Doug Mason

Will Power,

Throughout Scripture, "Blood" always is the symbol of DEATH, usually a violent one. It is never a symbol of life.

In a blood transfusion, the blood does not symbolise the death of the donor.

And the WTBTS/GB is NOT a "no blood" organisation, as it freely permits people to use parts of blood.

Doug

JWdaughter

I would tell him I am perfectly willing to abide by his wishes, and will promise to do so IF he promises to maintain a very generous insurance policy in the event of his death.When you have a spouse and/or children you have a responsibility to make sure your family's needs are cared for and their obligations met when you have agreed to them. Make sure he is well insured and let him be as stupid as he wants to be.

cognizant dissident

The blood/suicide cards ARE legal documents (do you think the society's lawyers don't know what they are doing?). A spouse cannot override it, legally or otherwise. If you went to an attorney and had a living will made out, saying you wanted certain medical treatments and refused others, would you want your family to override your wishes just because they didn't personally agree with them? If you are for taking away an ADULTS medical autonomy then you are for having your own taken away also.

Cog

mkr32208

When I left the Borg I tore up my card and threw it away. I also opened my wife's wallet took hers out and threw it away. I told her I did it and said if she got another I would throw it away as well. She never did...

If I'm working in the ER and a member of my family who is a witness comes in and needs blood I will take their card out of their passed out hand and throw IT away. I would feel NO guilt for this, none. If a witness came in with that card clutched in their hand and was passed out that card will not survive into the ER and I will do everything in my power to accidentally delay from calling any elders or liaison committee until blood has been given. Once again I will feel NO guilt for this.

I don't believe in god, that said if there IS a god I WILL NOT be the one going in front of her (lol) and saying "yeah I could have saved that person's life but I didn't want to mess with their stupid belief or risk getting in trouble..."

This belief is wrong plain and simple. I will NOT honor it in any way. In fact I will do EVERYTHING in my power to disrupt it. From talking to that person from the bible and agreeing to seal medical records so that no one will ever know they did it to losing records to tearing up and or 'losing' cards. I will NOT be part of someone who is not terminal committing suicide for some f%cking cult...

cognizant dissident

So Mkr, you are saying that you don't think adults should be able to determine whether they will accept medical treatment or not? So, if you had cancer and you decided that you didn't want chemotherapy even though doctors thought it would be certain suicide to refuse, do you also feel that your decision to not have chemo can be over-ruled by doctors who think your beliefs about chemo are stupid and suicidal. Do you think you are above the law of the land that says adult Jehovah's Witnesses and any other adult of any other crazy religion has the right to self-determination in medical decisions. Who are you to play God and take that right away from individuals, including your own spouse? Who gave you the right to make medical decisions for other adults against their legally stated and notarized wishes?

Cog

carla

The problem here is that you are assuming they actually are thinking for themselves, they aren't. If they were aware of all sides of the issue that would be one thing but they aren't. You think the hall would say it was ok to research AJWRB? or the history of flip flops? vaccines? transplants? Can you guarantee they will not flip flop on blood? How many have died already not even knowing they could have taken fractions? If they were truly informed I could understand if they refrained but the plain fact is they are not informed. They are under mental duress and pressure about the blood issue. I think there was an article in a medical journal that stated that most jw's if left alone and nobody from the kh knew, they would take blood.

mkr32208

I absolutly do in this situation.

I don't ask you to condone. In fact I don't give a shit if you condone or not. My wife was welcome to leave if she wanted to. That said I would absolutly have fought tooth and nail to give her blood if the situation had come up yes I would and if you WOULDN'T do that for your family than you are a fool.

As to the hospital I wouldn't FORCE blood on them. I'm saying that I would merely lose the card, if they can't make their stand known due to being unconcious and a dr gives them blood tough shit!

To compare this situation to chemo is totally stupid.

mkr32208

You might be surprised at the number of paramedics nurses emt's and Dr's who accidentally lose these cards...

This isn't a normal refusal to except treatment and everyone in the medical community knows it! In fact in both my EMT classes and RN classes one of the instructors discussed this (after ascertaining that there were no witnesses in the class) and said she couldn't tell us what to do but to think about what we would do and what would be in the patients best interest... So you can kid yourself all you want if your not conscious and no one is right there the chances of you getting blood is pretty damn good if your in dire need!

Lots of witnesses fail to mention it until later too. They aren't stupid and I think a lot of them in that situation have a 'don't ask don't tell attitude.'

Re: Suicide card

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