Re: Suicide card (page 6)

Gordy

I can't help think about the way the WT has changed its blood doctrine over the years.
When I was a JW I use to a little card that just said "NO BLOOD" and that was it.
Now they have to carry a dossier, with "I accept" "I might accept" "I refuse"

It could confuse doctors they get one JW in he has "I accept" on his card. Next JW the doctor may think they are the same belief, but they may be "I refuse" or it could be vice versa.

If a JW has a husband/wife who dies because they had "I refuse" on their card.

Then in same congregation, another JW has a husband/wife survive because they had "I accept" on their card.

Can you imagine the feeeling between the two.

The WT are getting themselves into a terrible tangle with the doctrine.

Maybe one day someone will go to court over it ... and they will win....maybe get awarded a large sum. Which will open the gates for others to sue.

Then the WT will be forced into dropping the doctrine.......................... Because it now involves money and not lives.

cognizant dissident

That would be great Gordy. I would like to see them sued for disseminating misleading medical information that has led to patient's deaths. Trouble is they will always fall back on saying, "our members refused on religious grounds not on medical grounds". They would have refused regardless of the medical implications. Still I would like to see someone try to sue and win.

Cog

llbh

our members refused on religious grounds not on medical grounds

If they say this why does the card give such deatiled medical alternatives?

They are the controling mind an d be fixed with this legally QED possbile litigation and bad publicity

David

cognizant dissident

If they say this why does the card give such deatiled medical alternatives?

Smoke and mirrors. In reality they are a fanatical religious cult who encourages their members to martyr themselves and their children based solely on their interptretation of a centuries old scripture that no one else agrees with. In that sense Junction Guy was correct. It is not really a medical decision, but a religious decision. However, that doesn't look good in the press and for the mainstrain image they are now trying to cultivate to the public. So they want to appear to doctors, lawyers, and their own members and anyone else concerned that they are truly informing their members of all their medical options available and that they are making the choice themselves without pressure. Hence the detailed medical directives. Those are quite accurate as laid out. All perfectly legal.

The misrepresentation comes in when they mislead about the true risks and benefits of the various treatments. The emotionally loaded, coercive, guilt-ridden language they use to sway their members to make the choice, which is found in the WT articles, of course is no where to be found on the medical directive itself. So not only to they mislead but they also put a huge amount of social pressure to bear on their members. I would like to see it be illegal for the society to pass out these blood cards and directives and have group fill outs. People who want to have them should have to go to their doctors and lawyers and and receive proper medical and legal advice before filling them out. Force the WTBTS to print full disclosure of the true risks of dying from blood transfusions and from dying from refusing one.

Cog

lv4fer

As much as I don't like the No blood doctrine. If your husband has made his wished clear you would be violating him if you forced him to take blood. It is HIS decision not YOURS. You cannot force him into it. We live in the US where we do have rights (even though the government is taking them away little by little) Now if it were your children that is another story but he can choose what is done with his own body.

carla

First of all he has NOT made his wishes known nor has he signed the bloody suicide card (all 4 pages) to my knowledge. Furthermore this was hypothetical and again, he has stated doubts when we actually had the conversation years ago. If I felt he was not coerced, informed from all points of view and was mentally capable to make such a decision I would abide by it. I do not think most jw's are able to make 'adult' decisions because they don't act like responsible adults to begin with. A responsible adult educates themselves especially when their life and that of their family is at stake, that includes quality of life for all involved. Sorry, their own intellectual laziness counts against them here in my opinion.

No laws would be broken as there is no card to my knowledge. I only have an idea that this weird group he belongs to sometimes adheres to the no blood or should I say 99% blood policy. This group that claim 'unity' actually allows 'conscience' decisions sometimes or allows blood only once but not a second time or that if this same group lives in Bulgaria their 'unity' is somehow not so unified with the rest of the jw's in other parts of the world. That in a kingdom hell of say 100 there may be 98 different views on what is allowable. It is lawful to keep people out of a hospital room though, and in the case where my jw was unconscious I sure as hell would keep the whackos away. Just what is the blood policy anyway? when jw's differ on it and can't explain it either!

No, if it ever comes down to it I would have no problem not participating in their assisted suicide plan as that would take an action on my part. Even taking no action is in fact taking an action, making a conscious decision to do nothing is a choice. Even if he died after receiving blood I would still sleep well at night knowing I did everything possible to preserve the sanctity of a life. I could look my children in the eye and say I tried, I made a choice for life and it failed. If he lived I could do the same. Besides what is the going number of years a jw stays a jw these days? You would say let him die, I would say let him live and have the same chance all of you had to find out the truth about the 'truth'.

cognizant dissident

If he has not signed a medical directive nor made his wishes firmly known to you, but has expressed doubts then there is no need for you to bring up the issue about blood in the hospital room. Again, it was his responsibility to do so with his doctor and/or with the blood card. By not doing so he is passing the responsibility to his next of kin, which is you. Therefore, you and the doctors decide together what is best. The JW's will not show up at the hospital to fight you if nobody calls them. The hospital contact the spouse first. If JW's did get wind of your husband being in the hospital, and show up, they have no leg to stand on without the blood card or permission from you to be there. They would not be allowed to visit without your permission.

cognac

I have a question about signing the suicide card.

This whole card thing... Yet, another thing that scares me about having kids. I'm afraid that something will happen to my baby and I won't make it there on time and hubby will refuse a blood transfusion and my baby dies... What a petrifying thought...

cognizant dissident

Won't happen Cognac, because as it stands now, children are always made wards of the court and transfused in spite of their JW parents.

Cog

carla

Won't happen Cognac, because as it stands now, children are always made wards of the court and transfused in spite of their JW parents.

Cog ----

I was frantic when I first learned about the blood issue, then I researched and felt the way Cog does for a looooong time. Then the case in Washington came up with the 14 yr old boy who just died refusing blood recently. He was only a jw for 4 years, lived with his jw aunt, parents had lost custody or gave over rights, don't remember how that all came about. The judge let this minor child decide for himself. sad.

Re: Suicide card

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