Two sex questions

by Seeker4 53 Replies latest social relationships

  • Ranchette
    Ranchette

    Seeker4,

    Wow,what a confession!

    I have to respect that you are being up front on how this happened and why.

    Also because it sounds like you wouldn’t want to be treated this way by your wife shows you know it is wrong to do this when you promised to be faithful when you entered into this committed relationship.

    I think many of us have feared that we might have to face what your wife has now that the threat of loss of position and privileges is no longer an issue and no there’s no longer as much fear of a God with a bolt of lightning on the ready when Armageddon comes.

    I feel for your wife. I wouldn’t wish this pain on anyone.

    We all deal with our newfound freedoms in different ways. That’s our choice.
    There are consequences though and we have to live with ourselves after these choices.

    The bond of trust that you once shared is damaged.
    This may not be an issue with couples who have open relationships or decide together at some point in the relationship to make it an open one but it is an issue here in this case it seems.
    Yes some trust can be rebuilt but it will never be the same.

    I’m glad you want to stay with her. I truly hope things work out.

    I’m not so sure this situation is going to be as smooth as you hope.
    She needs reassurance of your love and that she’s still desirable to you.That’s probably what she’s going through now but she will go through several different stages in all this.

    From other experiences I’ve heard it can take quite abit of time.

    You have exciting memories of your escapades to reflect on but remember all she has is the knowledge that you broke the trust and you were with other women. Please be understanding.

    I wish you the best and please let us know what happens over time.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Ranchette

  • JanH
    JanH

    Hmm, it's not easy to understand why men are often unfaithful (as women also are). What I have problems understanding is why men have this strong need to confess! You can't change the past, you may feel miserable, so what do you do? You make your spouse miserable too, and yourself doubly so.

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • Angharad
    Angharad

    Interesting thread, thanks for being so honest about things.

    Good points Ranchette

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Jan,

    I wanted to respond that I agree that confession is often a mistake, as bad as that may sound to some here. A few things happened that required I come clean with some of this stuff to my wife. Otherwise, I wouldn't have. I think it was just unnecessarily painful. I have divulged as little as possible.

    Having said that, I think having this out in the open is making a big change for the better in the marriage, even though this has been a remarkably good marriage in a lot of ways. And Ranchette, I know that this is going to be a serious and challenging time for both my wife and I.

    Part of the reason I brought this up so openly is that I found leaving the Witnesses made me question the whole idea of vowing ourselves into relationships that might be different with time than what we thought they were. For instance, I broke my dedication vow and no longer believe in a god. And it also made me wonder about a religiously-based marriage vow that one makes at 20 (in my own case) and that you are expected to honor FOREVER.

    My wife and I are seeing a marriage counselor, and we've discussed this idea quite a bit in counseling. I've made it clear that I can't make a promise that I would NEVER be with another woman again. That seems ridiculous to me, and I cringe at the idea of making another vow that I might not keep. We have agreed that we both can say that as far as we can see right now we WANT to be together and WANT to limit ourselves sexually to just the other person. And if that should change where we didn't want to be together, we'd talk about it before one of us decided to leave the other.

    I brought this subject up because I wondered if any others had been through something similar. For me, part of it was realizing I was going to grow old and die somewhere down the road, and there were certain experiences I wanted to have before that happened. Selfish? Yes. But then again, as far as any of us can tell, we get one life, and this is it, so we need to make the most of it. My wife and I also have an unusual situation in that we are the only couple I know of where one partner has totally left the Witnesses and the other remained, AND the marriage has stayed together. And happily so, I might add, despite what you may think of my sexual escapades.

    I'm struggling a bit to understand all this because both the marriage, our relationship and my own experiments are not quite like anything I've ever heard of before. I was just wondering if anyone out there had anything to contribute to all of this. It seems that, except for Xena, there's a lot of silence on the matter. Understandably so.

    But leaving the Witnesses left me with this incredible sense of life as an adventure, of an opportunity to say yes to a lot of things in life that I had always said no to. And doing so openly and without blinders on as to the possible consequences. That was certainly part of the draw of being with these women, the sense of total involvement in life. When I've talked with the women about it, they've agreed that the experience has left their lives richer and fuller as well. And they have all remained friends of mine. Does that make sense in the world of conventional morality? No. But does it make sense in the context of a life fully lived at the limits? Yes. Does it mean there has been no pain in the situations? Of course not, but a life fully lived has both pain and joy - not just one side of the coin.

    So, those are some of the ideas that moved me to open this up to discussion. I'm sort of feeling my way along here in a life that has little precedent, and that is certainly quite different than the one I led as a JW. It's just that, when the life draws to an end, I want to be able to feel that I lived it as straight out and fully as is possible.

    Does this make sense?
    S4

  • mommy
    mommy
    Does this make sense?


    PERFECT sense! I understand you fully now, thank you for divulging further. I think that honesty and revealing to your wife is very important. You know that there are things you have kept from her so as not to cause her pain. Just perhaps she is also keeping things from you. Perhaps she has silenced her own desires because of the vow she made 2o+ years ago as well. I think it is only fair in a relationship that you are 100% honest even if it causes pain. If you are honest then mistrust is easier to get over, and the healing begins quicker.

    Thanks you Seeker4 for sharing this with us My first husband cheated on me, and then lied about it, even though I had proof that he had done this. Perhaps if he has admitted to me openly and honestly we would still be together now. I didn't need all the details, just a reason to start believing him again. Then again..probably not I was very young and immature then, and didn't have the time you had invested in your relationship.

    I hope you and your wife can stick close together during this time, it seems you both are going through alot right now. I loved the fact that you admit to not being able to say you won't ever cheat again! BRAVO
    wendy

    PS. I just want to say when I read your confession earlier, my opinion of you was not very high. See I have a few pet peeves in my life that I will not bend about. One of them is adultry. I want you to know that even though I am strongly against it, you have shown me another side of it. Thank you.

    Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

  • JanH
    JanH

    Wendy,

    I think it is only fair in a relationship that you are 100% honest even if it causes pain

    On the contrary, all social relationships require a little bit of dishonesty.

    There are certain parts of myself that I do not reveal to anyone, some parts I would only reveal to very close friends (hopefully including a spouse), some things I only tell my close buddies, etc. I think almost all people have it like that.

    There are some things you don't say out of courtesy, and you may even lie to afford hurting people. If you are "100% honest", it will hurt both you and your partner. People often do not even realize they are dishonest; it is just the way we are used to live life.

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • Xena
    Xena

    I think I somewhat understand where you are coming from seeker. When we (my husband and I) were JW's we never questioned why we were together...we just were...divorce or seperation was never an issue. If you were a good JW you stayed together no matter what! Now that we are no longer JW's we are looking at our marriage in a different light..we no longer HAVE to stay together...we have options we didn't have before. If we choose to stay with each other it is because we WANT to now.

    I believe the open marriage is a way for us to stay together while enjoying and discovering other people. Like most of the people on here that were raised JW we didn't have much of an opportunity to date (ok well I dated, but hubby didn't) and interact with other people...I personally feel like if he meets someone else and leaves me for her...well it will hurt of course, but if he wasn't happy with me then it wasn't right anyway...I don't want to be with someone who feels like they are "stuck" with me...I want them to be with me because they WANT to be with me...after they have seen everything there is to offer..they still want me in the end...that is to me a true marriage.

  • JanH
    JanH

    S4,

    Well said. Yes, I can relate to a lot of what you say. I'd surely not would want to have lived life only having experienced sex with one person, even if I could.

    Indeed it is rare to see a lasting, fulfilling marriage between an exJW and a JW. If you and your wife can do that, more power to you.

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • Mindchild
    Mindchild

    Seeker,

    I would like to suggest a rather interesting and shocking book on human sexuality.

    Sperm Wars by Robin Baker (2000)

    Here is a quote from the dust jacket:

    Synopsis
    Robin Baker puts forward the thesis that evolution has programmed men to conquer and monopolise women while women, without even knowing they are doing it, seek the best genetic input on offer from potential sexual partners. Facts of life presented include: 10 per cent of children are not fathered by their "fathers", less than 1 per cent off a man's sperm is capable of fertilizing anything - the rest is there to fight off other men's sperm, "smart" vaginal mucus encourages some sperm but blocks others, and a woman is far more likely to conceive through a casual fling than through sex with her regular partner. Baker describes fictionalized scences and then explains the science behind the actions to demonstrate how our everyday behaviour fits into a pattern of evolution.

    I suggest this book without reservation to any man or woman who wants to understand their sexual instincts and how these instincts surface in our lives.

    Skipper

    All great deeds and all great thoughts have ridiculous beginnings--Albert Camus

  • mommy
    mommy
    On the contrary, all social relationships require a little bit of dishonesty.

    You are right of course. Don't you get sick of that?hehe
    wendy

    Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

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