Two sex questions

by Seeker4 53 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  Mulan

  I got married at 17 and my husband was the only man I was ever with.

  If anything happened to him, and I were to think about remarrying, I know for a fact, I wouldn't marry anyone I hadn't slept with. Looking back on my life as a dub, I see it as just a ridiculous requirement.

  I have told my husband many times, that if he were ever to have an affair, I would forgive him. I don't want to start over after all of our history together, and our family too, is very important to both of us. I also said, "just don't fall in love. That's not okay." For those who might be wondering (my family and friends on this board), he has assured me that it will never happen, and he is completely happy where he is, and hasn't been tempted even. That was neat. I see women flirting with him, and he is oblivious to it, and says I am imagining things, when I point it out to him. So he doesn't even pick up on a woman coming on to him.

  For me, when we stopped believing it all, I felt a tremendous freedom, and loved flirting, and getting attention from men. It was exhilirating. I was propositioned on a business trip, by a gorgeous man, 16 years younger than me. Very tempting. Also very dangerous, in our times. Not a good idea. But, I kept wondering "what is it like with other men? Is it the same?" Some things are best left alone. I doubt my husband would be as forgiving, as I would be, if he were to stray.

  Even in the Bible, men were not required to be monogamous, so why were women? Because a man had to know he was the father of the children. That makes sense to me. But, it IS a double standard.

  Seeker, I agree with much of what you said, but I wonder WHY you told her. Did you get caught? A friend told me once, that you can do all of those things, you talked about, just "NEVER EVER EVER tell." That seems smart.

  My friend who is 16 years younger, has many other women, and is quite open about it in the business world, and his wife is very suspicious, but he continues to deny it, and has never admitted the truth, no matter how damning the evidence is. So far, it is keeping her happy, but she is always suspicious. I asked him why on earth he wanted to go to bed with me, because I am so much older. He is a Hindu, and said that age is nothing, and that I was a fantastic woman, and he wanted to make love to me. That was so neat. All I needed really, was just to hear that. But, I would have only been another notch on his belt. Nothing special. That would not have made me feel very good.

  Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
  "Those who know, don't say, and those who say, don't know."
• 

  Seeker4

  Hey, Mulan, wondered when you'd weigh in here. Welcome. I was hoping Undle Bruce would wade in as well!

  Why confess? Caught with an incriminating email when all the email providers were screwed up following Sept. 11. Other than that, I agree - there is little to be gained by confessing. Sorry Mommy - but I'm not into that "total honesty" being vital for a relationship. Sometimes it's just hurtful.

  Mommy - maybe we should talk. I'm certainly not sure that I understand myself completely!! And I also understood in bringing this topic up that there would be some folks, women especially, who would have serious issues with what I had done. I really want to hear those. Part of this experiment is to also try to understand other people better. And some may be offended by my use of the term experiment. I don't mean that coldly or casually. I consider all of life a big, wonderful experiment.

  But I am about through confessing for the day. I'm headed out in an hour or so to my favorite restaurant/watering hole to hear two of the finest singer/songwriters in the coutnry. One is from Texas and the other from Colorado, and it's a rare treat to hear them back east. I'm listening to one on CD right now, and his music is just about enough to make me cry. Beautiful stuff. I'm meeting another musician friend there for a few beers - he's actually headlining the show there in a week. Have made a ton of new musician and artist friends since leaving the Witnesses - and not ALL of them are women!! Would give you more details, but have already revealed enough private info in this topic without getting too specific about where I live.

  One cool thing is that my wife is meeting me there after the TMS and Service Meeting tonight. She just left dressed in a short black leather skirt. Hell, there's something to look forward too!! My god, that outfit will probably inspire another special needs talk in a week or two, not to mention a few fantasies for the elders?!?! So - things seem to be going OK. What a strange, wonderful complex life we can live, eh? My blessings to you all -
  S4
• 

  Ranchette

  Seeker 4,

  I hope you understand that I am not trying to judge you. I’m letting you know how I personal feel and what I expect from marriage.
  I know these things happen and I would do every thing I could to forgive my mate if ever a situation like this happens. That’s what people do when they truly love one another.

  I just feel that if we decide that we want to experiment or change the rules of our original vows we should be open and honest from the start.
  If we don't really know what we want then say that.
  At least the other person would know the state of the relationship and can reevaluate the situation.

  It takes effort and self-discipline to honor the marriage vows.
  I would hate to spend years, as the faithful wife when all along or at different times in the marriage my mate wasn't.

  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
  If he's committed I'm committed. If he's not then maybe I won't be either.
  What amazes me is the men who exercise their right to sexual freedom but won't allow this freedom or put up with it from the wife.

  Men aren't the only ones with rights and desires.
  Before doing this did you put yourself in her place?
  Try to imagine how you would feel if she did this to you.

  Are you ready to hear these following words coming from your wife's mouth?
  "It's so exciting when a handsome man who is a virtual stranger whispers in my ear, I want to suck your pussy."
  I don't believe you are.

  Before you are unfaithful you should ask your self if your willing to accept this behavior from her.

  You said,
  Part of the reason I brought this up so openly is that I found leaving the Witnesses made me question the whole idea of vowing ourselves into relationships that might be different with time than what we thought they were.

  I understand this.
  I have wondered if anything ever happened to my husband whether I'd want to get married again. Who knows I might want to remain free.

  I'm not saying a person should be stuck in a marriage just because they made a vow.
  I just believe in being honest and honoring vows and if at any point feelings change I want to know.

  You also said,
  But leaving the Witnesses left me with this incredible sense of life as an adventure, of an opportunity to say yes to a lot of things in life that I had always said no to.

  I understand these words very much and I even see how they apply in this situation. I have felt that way too.

  I am glad you two are communicating better and going to therapy.
  I truly wish you the best.
  I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
  This is an emotional issue.

  Ranchette
  
• 

  Ranchette

  Jan,

  You are upfront and honest here on the board with the fact that you don't want to live a monogamous life.
  I respect that.
  There are lots of girls out there who feel the same way.
  I hope you are just as open with the women you get involved with as you are here.

  Xena,
  You have mentioned several times that you are in an open marriage.
  I know that it didn't start out that way so I was just courious,
  did you two have a talk and reevaluate your marriage and lay new ground rules?

  It sounds like it.
  I can respect this too.
  I just can't respect one person in the relationship changing the rules without the others knowledge.

  Does anyone understand any of this?

  Ranchette
  
• 

  SixofNine

  I'm curious about the amount of risk you felt this extracurricular activity was to your marriage. You said, I believe, that you were prepared for the consequences. Obviously, you went into this eyes wide open; were you prepared for your marriage to end? Did you gamble that you would not be caught? Did you assume (your writing makes it seem rightly so) that your wife would not kick your cheating ass to the curb , and therefore the risk was not as great?

  If you were prepared for your marriage to end, I'm curious about how that affects your thoughts about the marriage going forward, and even more so, I'm curious about how it affects your wifes thoughts about the marriage going forward, provided she has realized this?

  Also, didn't I see you at Adairs hitting on the waitress? :)

  Also also, I didn't think Lyle Lovett played anywhere small enough to be called a "watering hole". Must be Bob Schnieder or Jimmy Lafave. ;)
• 

  waiting

  Hello Ranchette,

  Yes, I understand about the old saying What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

  I also understand that when one partner wants to "experiment" - that saying is usually not followed.

  Been there on the receiving end.

  waiting
• 

  GentlyFeral

  SixofNine:
  

  are you still with your husband? If so, has the hetero side of your sex life waxed, waned, or stayed the same?

  Yep, we're still together -- like I said, Jehoover Hisself could not break us up. We've gotten even queerer, so we've drifted apart sexually...for now...who knows what the future holds? On the other hand, we're better friends than we've been for years.

  He's starting to come out of his shell, wrestling with old fears and suspicions, developing artistically and spiritually, and just generally opening up. I like to watch }:)

  GentlyFeral
• 

  Seeker4

  Good posts. Don't have much time this morning, but will try to respond.

  Ranchette - I didn't feel you were judgemental at all. Have enjoyed your input, as well as Waiting and all the others. And I guess the point is that if some guy was whispering that in my wife's ear, I'd prefer not to know. But you are right, I did put myself in her place and found it disturbing.

  SixofNine - I knew there was considerable risk in what I was doing -probably part of the attraction, to tell you the truth. I didn't expect to be found out, and if I was I fully expected the marriage to end. I was prepared for that consequence. And I really did figure my wife would kick my sorry ass to the curb - and beyond! I was totally surprised and impressed with how she handled things, how we talked about it (no raised voices, no name calling [well she did say I was selfish, with which I totally agreed], no screaming or knife attacks). All of that really reinforced to me what a special woman she was and what a sorry-assed mistake it would be to lose any more of what we had. That's when we decided to rebuild - and make things better than what they were.

  I think part of what we knew was that we've always been best friends - and at times best lovers, but not always. And that's part of what we wanted to rebuild - that passion and excitement for one another that we'd lost. There's a huge history here - started being interested in each other when she was 13 and I was 15. Married five years later and will be 30 years married this coming year. And I was never neglectful of her in all this - she said I'd always been there for her (and she's had some really rough bouts with depression) and that she couldn't imagine growing old without me there with her.

  And I felt the same - but I also realized I needed an intensity in my life that was just no longer there between us. That's what we're getting back - and maybe, subconsciously, that was what I was trying to do with all of this. Shake things up, stir things around, create some excitement, get us thinking about things, move out of a comfort zone. My therapist is more Jungian than Freudian - but he allowed for that possiblity.

  Also 629 - never been to Adair's. And you'd be surprised at how little "hitting on" was involved in this whole thing! One waitress did become a good friend - but not a lover.

  And the Lyle Lovett guess was remarkably close, though the two other names were off. I've already opened myself up a lot in this post, and saw the several hundred times it's been read, so I won't get too detailed here. Already a few local people and friends who read these boards. But Lyle actually used to open for one of the guys that played, and was responsible for the guy's comeback album in 1996. The guy - the Texan - told me after the show over a few beers that he's doing an Austin City Limits that should be showing in January and I'll post here when that airs.

  It was a great evening, with a packed house and a ton of my musician friends there, including an ex-JW I've known for a long, long time.

  OK, back to work. And thanks to all for the input.
  S4
• 

  JanH

  Ranchette,
  

  You are upfront and honest here on the board with the fact that you don't want to live a monogamous life.
  I respect that.

  Thanks. However, allow me to clarify. When I fall in love with someone, I am thoroughly lost in her. And I don't go elsewhere. What I meant was not that I'd pursue others, but that I know that over time -- years -- that would surely happen, especially since I am very demanding sexually. It would be unrealistic to think otherwise.

  I'm thinking about Xena's comments about an "open marriage." I believe it requires two people who are very secure about each other and their spouses. They would also, I think, need to be balanced. If, say, the woman was very attractive and therefor had many 'contacts,' while the man didn't, I doubt it would work out in the long run.
  

  There are lots of girls out there who feel the same way.
  I hope you are just as open with the women you get involved with as you are here.

  Surely. If my girlfriend had casual sex with another man, that wouldn't bother me. I am not a very jealous person by nature. However, if my spouse had a long term affair with another man, that is something else entirely (same is true about me of course). One can develop into the other, so I'm not sure how well this "open" relationship will work out in real life. I doubt it would be easy to start a relationship as an "open" one. In the beginning, you're not so confident in yourself or your spouse, and jealousy is a result of lack of confidence, mostly in yourself.

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
• 

  Xena

  Hey Ranchette I can certainly see where you are coming from and totally agree...you need to have honesty and openness in ANY relationship!

  The open marriage came about after I found out my husband of 15 years had cheated on me..being of the "don't get mad get even" class I then in turn had my own affair. (lol hope your wife doesn't take after me seeker!) Once everything was out in the open we were able to determine what we BOTH wanted from our marriage. We enjoy each others company, have great sex together, have a beautiful daughter and a lot of history together. Neither of us wanted to lose that, but we also enjoy the company of others and found that neither of us minding "sharing" our partner. The outcome of all this was an open marriage.

  So far it has worked for us...a lot of people ask me if I think it will break my marriage up...I don't know I don't have all the answers...lol if I did I wouldn't have been a JW for over 20 years, now would I???

  Just saw your post Jan - you sound like a prime candidate for an open marriage I agree that you need to have a really good relationship with someone for this type of thing. Be confident and comfortable with who you both are and what you want..you can't be jealous...but like everything I am sure it has lots of pitfalls that we need to be looking for...and there is an element of risk involved...but that is what makes it exciting.....what is life without some risk??? death!