Two sex questions

by Seeker4 53 Replies latest social relationships

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Tyydyy,

    I don't disagree with you, I was referring to one partner feeling it's OK to cheat behind the back of the other under the mistaken asumption that now it's not a DF'able offence, any grief to the parner is relatively unimportant. This is not the case IMHO, just because we drop our belief from the WTBTS, doesn't mean it's OK to cheat, unless you have an open marriage in which case 'cheat' is the wrong word.

    Of course I realise that some marriages are only held together by dubbishness, and some marriages are naturally of the open kind. I don't think that a high percentage will be open, though.

    Englishman.

    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    Right on,
    I understand what you were saying now.
    The Golden rule applies here.
    Not just any relationship could be open and one could "cheat" even in an open relationship by lying. Trust is the thing that gives comfort to those without the chains of marriage vows.

    Tim B

  • ItsJustMe
    ItsJustMe

    So....let's say I have a "friend" whose husband believes oral sex is a sin....how would we refute the WTS line of reasoning? My CD Rom is broken & I can't look up the latest "conscience matter" line of reasoning.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    It'sJustMe,

    Youre not going to find a scripture that says it's OK to give hubby a blow-job. You are also not going to find one that says that you can't.

    This is from Escape from the WT:

    "According to the Watchtower publication supplied to the elders entitled" Pay Attention To Yourselves And To The Flock," it states on page 93, "Porneia . . . . includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other . . . . " On page 142 it states, "While perverted practices are wrong, if within a marriage one is involved or has been involved in such, it does not mean that he or she would necessarily lose service privileges. If such conduct becomes known to the elders, they would need to consider: Is the practice recent or ongoing, or is it something occurred in the past and is definitely conquered? Is the individual promoting such conduct as a proper life-style? Is his attitude one of remorse? If he is sincerely repentant and the situation is not generally known, it may not be necessary to remove privileges of service."

    I find this amazing. Here the Watchtower calls oral sex "perverted" and yet no "service privileges" are lost, unless the "situation is generally known." Either this is a wrong practice or it is not. Is it right that the elders can ask the above questions to married couples? There appears to be so much open space in the above counsel, that one elder, who is firm, harsh and legalistic would take away "service privileges" of the individual, while a more balanced, mature elder would not do such. It now comes into the personal decisions of men to determine the outcome of the situation and not solely the scriptures. This is clearly a legalistic way to deal with matters, a legal code, similar to the Pharisees of Jesus day, a code that is not to be practiced under the "law of Christ." For such practices "make the word of God invalid."

    I am not either advocating or condemning oral or anal sex. What I am saying is, what right or authority does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society have to determine and enforce what is proper sex for married Christians? Notice that it is stated more than once, that this type of sex is "clearly a perverted sex practice." How "clearly" is it? Not clear at all. And the fact is, that if it becomes known to the congregation, that a Married couple is having oral sex, the result could be a deletion of the brother's privileges in the congregation, or possible disfellowshipment. Now this person would be completely shunned and labeled an outcast, all for having certain types of sexual relations with his wife. Is this in harmony with the scriptures? There are certain cases where women are frigid and penetration is almost impossible. What then? There are also cases where men cannot obtain an erection, thus unable to please their wives. What then? According to the Watch Tower Society, they would have no other choice but to remain celibate.

    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society also, puts their own meaning into the words "loose conduct" and "uncleanness" (Galatians 5:19, Colossians 3:5). They claim that "loose conduct" pertains to any type of sex, other than sexual intercourse, including practices between married couples. Using the term "uncleanness," the Watchtower publication supplied to the elders entitled "Pay Attention To Yourselves And To The Flock," it states on page 92,

    "Uncleanness includes an intentional momentary touching of sexual parts or caressing of breasts." And on page 94, "Self-abuse, or masturbation, is not porneia (fornication), nor would one who was raped be guilty of porneia . . . . copulation (as in penetration) is not necessary to constitute porneia, and neither is sexual climax." The Watchtower Society (1)

    To go even a step further on the interpretation of sexual practices, Jehovah's Witnesses elders have to ask individuals some very intimate personal questions to determine whether they should conduct a judicial hearing or to determine the outcome of the judicial hearing they are already conducting. Can you imagine Jesus Christ instructing his disciples to ask such questions and lay out such details on sexual matters? Did Jesus Christ teach a Christian Law code of judicial hearings and organizational procedures for married couples sexual practices and for men who have nocturnal emissions in private or woman who use a vibrator in private? Certainly this goes far beyond the "law of Christ," following legalistic practices that Jesus himself condemned in his day."

    Hope that was useful,

    Englishman.

    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

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