The WT has NEVER made a mistake ; They just have NEW UNDERSTANDING from time to time ! ha ha ha
Caliber
What prompted the whopper of all Flip Flops? (Sodom & G. resurrection)
by Open mind 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Fatfreek
I'll see if I can pull up an earlier "No" quote than the 1955 one.
That will be good if you can find it, Leolaia. If you can't I don't believe it's a great loss. The 1955 instance may not be the very first flop but it is an honest and JW-verifiable source.
As we all know, the WT Library on CD begins at 1950. Prior to that date, we're at the mercy of scans which, to some JW's, can be subject to Photoshop forgery.
Len
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kifoy
Leolaia:
I'll see if I can pull up an earlier "No" quote than the 1955 one.Len:
As we all know, the WT Library on CD begins at 1950. Prior to that date, we're at the mercy of scans which, to some JW's, can be subject to Photoshop forgery.Yes, Len, you're somewhat right. But some witnesses know that you can buy the oldest Watchtower on CDs, so they can verify if they want to.
I found something in a 1952 Watchtower (June 1, 1952, p. 338):5 It is likely that for the majority of men who have lived on the earth the time of their judgment will be in the millennial reign of Christ, at the time of the resurrection of mankind and thereafter. However, long before this many persons will have had their time of judgment, as the Scriptures show that God has brought certain judgment periods upon human society at certain times, during which God held them accountable for their course of action. That they might be really accountable at such times, he caused testimony to be given that they might know the issue and make their decision, by which they would determine their destiny, independent of any inherited condemnation from Adam. One of such judgment periods was the flood of Noah’s day, prior to which Noah preached righteousness. Another was the fiery end of Sodom and Gomorrah, which cities saw warning miracles by angels and heard testimony from Lot before the rain of fire fell. In Jesus’ day it was a time of judgment and he warned certain Jewish cities of a fate like that upon Sodom and Gomorrah, and judged certain scribes and Pharisees fit for the eternal destruction of Gehenna. Our present day is also a time of judgment, and by the time Armageddon strikes all persons then living will have fixed their destiny.
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7 [...] Peter cited these ancient examples of cutting-off to show the fate of false prophets and false teachers in the Christian congregation, who brought in destructive sects and disowned Christ, and who thereby were “bringing speedy destruction upon themselves”. Who will contend that the destruction of such defilers of the Christian congregation is not final? The ancient destructions upon Noah’s contemporaries and Sodom and Gomorrah must be just as final, else how could they illustrate the one Peter was discussing?—2 Pet. 2:1-4, NW.I cannot quote the whole article, but I understand this as a "no"...
I also found a small passage in The Watchtower, October 1936, p. 313, that says that "Sodom is set forth as an example of those whom God will destroy at Armageddon".
Anyway.
The whole "new light" understanding (when referring to Proverbs 4:18), demands that the light gets brighter, not that the new understanding is the same as a previous understanding. -
Leolaia
Fatfreak....Well, by the same token, the first quote (and flip flop) has to go too, since it is a quote from the July 1879 Zion's Watch Tower (miscited as "1979"), which would nowhere be found in the WT Library CD-ROM.
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Narkissos
I sure hope those people get some discount for their underground tickets on the Gehenna-Hades line...
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Leolaia
Well, here is a very clear quote from 1939 that answered "YES" to the question of whether the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would be resurrected:
*** w39 1/1 pp. 12-13 Captivity ***
Sodom, Samaria and Jerusalem were the captives of the Devil's organization, and all went down into death as such captives. The Almighty God will destroy Satan's organization and will bring the people of those nations, with exceptions, back from that captivity...The return of all must take place at the same time, according to the Scriptures. Today all the Sodomites are the dead captives of Satan. Likewise the unfaithful Isrealites are the dead captives of Satan. All these captives must be brought back or returned "in the latter days". (Jer. 49:39) This can take place after Satan's organization is destroyed and Satan is bound....Satan dragged them down into destruction and brought them into captivity, and the returning of them from captivity will mean their return unto a condition of conscious existence, freed from Satan's organization, which will then have been destroyed....The heathen, such as Sodom, must return, if at all, in order to learn that the name of God has been vindicated. All then must have and will have opportunity to know and obey God's law.
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kifoy
I too found the 1939 article. Image of scan can be found here: WT1939-p13
I found articles from 1941 and 1948 that indicate no resurrection:
WT1941-p367
WT1948-p219
And a lot of Watchtowers in the 30s and 40s had articles on the destruction of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah being just like the destruction of "Christendom" in Armageddon... -
Fatfreek
Based on Leolaia and Kifoy's contributions here is a modified recap of the series of flip-flops. As you can see, however, they haven't resulted in a change from the original figure of 8 different positions -- 7 reversals.
1879 - Will be resurrected
The Watchtower 1979, p. 7,8:
1934 - Will be resurrected (Leolaia and Kifoy)
w39 1/1 pp. 12-13
1941, 1948 -- Will not be resurrected (Kifoy)
WT1941-p367
WT1948-p219
1955 - Will not be resurrected
The Watchtower 15. November 1955, p. 676:
1965 - Will be resurrected
The Watchtower 1. March 1965, p. 138:
1967 - Will not be resurrected
The Watchtower 1. July 1967, p. 409:
1974 - Will be resurrected
The Watchtower 8. October 1974, p. 20:
1988 - Will not be resurrected
The Watchtower 1. June 1988, p. 30:
1988 - Will be resurrected
Insight, Vol. 1 p. 985 (Gomorrah):
1989 - Will not be resurrected
Live forever... (1989) Chap. 21, p. 179:Len
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hotchocolate
BFD...
QUOTE ***Sometimes there is a bad connection with the Holy Spirit and this causes the New Light to have a strobe effect. I am sure that the FDS is working on the connection problems as we speak. Can't you just wait on Jehovah for crying out loud!***
Oh my goodness I can't stop laughing... strobe effect... that is precious... LOL -
Leolaia
Fatfreak...You have "1934" in that list where it should be "1939".
kifoy...Those are good finds. The 1941 quote tho is a little ambiguous, the "complete desolation" from which there is no hope of recovery is stated of the cities themselves, not the inhabitants, tho it is pretty clear that this is what is meant. It seems that the change in doctrine is stated somewhat obliquely at first. BTW, this paragraph also occurred (with minor variations) in the 6/1/1940 Watchtower (p. 165). Looks like Rutherford copied and reused his own writings late in life.
And a lot of Watchtowers in the 30s and 40s had articles on the destruction of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah being just like the destruction of "Christendom" in Armageddon...
Well, yes and no. The destruction is certainly likened typologically to that of Sodom and Gomorrah. But there are some articles that make it clear that Christendom and Sodom are not equivalent; it is Christendom that is worse off in terms of judgment. For instance:
*** w40 4/15 pp. 126-127 Is "Christendom" Worse Than Sodom? ***
Sodom represented the nations of the earth which are called "heathen", while Jerusalem represented what is called "Christendom". Immorality, debauchery, pride and idleness that prevailed in Sodom well apply to all the heathen nations. Sodom was a part of Satan's organization, entirely under his control, and knew not Jehovah. The same is true of all heathen nations of today. The peoples of Sodom were exceedingly bad; but they did not know better, because they had not been instructed. The Jews, being God's covenant people to whom were given the law and the prophets, knew better, and therefore their abominations were far worse than that of the Sodomites.... The Catholic branch of "Christendom" is an abomination in the sight of God, and the Protestant branch of "Christendom" is more abominable because of its greater light and opportunity. According to the same rule, those in these latter days, whether Catholic or Protestant, who have received a knowledge of the truth and embraced it and learned of God's kingdom, and who have then become lawless, are even more represensible.
