"The Truth will set you free" but what the JW's have is a cult because they make people prisoners.
Maddie
Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?
by minimus 119 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
White Dove
I didn't read all of the responses so this may be duplicated somewhere in this thread. But, in the NWT Jesus did use the name Jehovah several times. Matthew 4:10, Mark 12:29, and there are many scattered about in the books that Paul wrote.
-
Pickled
Quietlyleaving, you wrote:
"2 verses from thessalonians sum up how and what I felt whe sharing the good news of the kingdom
2thess1:6-10
and 1thess2:7&8"
Are you saying that you believed that God was going to destroy those who troubled you, but you loved those who troubled you enough to share the gospel with them?
(Corrected post to past tense) -
Pickled
Undercover, I really liked your post. Very clear.
-
Pickled
If you are reading this thread and you are currently studying with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, then you are no doubt on a search for the truth. You are probably also at a very low point in your life. You are likely searching, you are hungry for change, and you are having a hard time right now sorting through what you once knew and what you have been confronted with now.
It is also safe to assume that you had enough doubts about what you are hearing to cause you to search for and find this website. If you are an honest and open person and you feel you have a good relationship with the Witness you are studying with, you have likely shared some of the things you have discovered online with him or her.
Did you hear any of these responses?
“Well, stop and consider this, (insert your name here)……..don’t you find it odd that none of them found anything wrong with Jehovah’s teachings until they were disfellowshipped?”
“I understand what you are saying, and they do raise a good point about God being a God of love, and now that they have left Jehovah’s Organization they feel more freedom to be themselves. Then why all the anger? If they are so free now why do they continue to congregate together rehashing all the reasons why they left to be free?”
“It sounds like the only thing they are preaching is a message against everything they once believed. Have you tried to stop and consider what they are FOR instead of what they only seem to be AGAINST? An anti-gospel is not a ministry.”
“What truths or message are they offering you apart from how badly they believe they were treated while they were in Jehovah’s Organization?”
“If you read those websites long enough you will find that their “freedom” consists of doing all the things that they felt they were prevented from doing while they were a part of Jehovah’s Organization. Why is it that all of those things include sins and none of those things include preaching the gospel in spite of their claims of understanding the bible in a more truthful way?”
These are all very good questions, and they sound reasonable and logical. Is there any truth in those questions?
Yes. Many of the people on these websites were content with being a Jehovah’s Witness until they were caught doing something that was considered a sin within the Organization, and then eventually were “disciplined” by being separated from the other members. The separation made them feel rejected, angry, and betrayed. They also knew ahead of time that there were behaviors that the Organization considered offenses worthy of being disfellowshipped, and they did them anyway and were still angry about the consequences.
However, there are also some who were not disfellowshipped because of “wrong doing.” Some had their membership removed because they began to ask questions that made it appear to the leadership that they were a threat to the other members. Those questions included many of the questions you will find online as you read the various websites of former members.
It is important that you become able to recognize those legitimate questions and look beyond the comments that offer you nothing helpful at all in your search.
A third group among those who have been disfellowshipped are those who brought the abuse they suffered to the attention of those who should have acted in a protective role, but instead their abuse became a tool that was used against them. The fact that they were disfellowshipped as a result of being victimized makes their particular experience that much more egregious. As it is with victims of abuse in all religions, it is particularly painful to be abused by those who claim to represent God. Consider just how painful it is when the abuse occurs at the hands of those who claim to be the ONLY representatives of God on this earth; a claim that you believe throughout your abuse. Then, upon turning to those representatives for help and healing, you are met with accusations, denial, and a clear intention to protect the very one who caused you so much pain. Their experiences are very real and, in reading them, you can get an idea of a mindset that is prevalent within the Organization you are considering. This mindset is not entirely unique among all the various religions, but this happens to be the religion you are considering right now.
Another category you will encounter, are those who are not committing any “offenses” and have not been disfellowshipped. They have simply come to the realization, through research and private questioning, that there are very significant contradictions, misstatements, and flat out lies in the information that they have been given and are expected to unquestionably follow. What they are experiencing is very painful because along with that realization is the inevitable fact that they will eventually have to make the decision to either remain a non-believing member, or lose all of their friends and family by leaving. It is important to understand that, according to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, anyone who is not a member of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society does not have a relationship with God, and will be destroyed by God eventually, and hopefully soon. The person you are studying with does not want to be in that category and holds in contempt anyone who, according to what they believe, has deliberately placed themselves in that category by disobeying Jehovah’s Organization. It is actually a mandate to the “faithful” to treat anyone who is in that category as though they are already destroyed. This is why they do not speak to them any longer and do not invite them to social events, even including a meal at any table. However, the former member is allowed to attend meetings, and the hope is that they will hear the truth in those meetings and return to God’s Organization once again and escape destruction.
It is very important to keep in mind that your “study” partner is willing to reject and shun even their own children, their husband or wife, or their parents if any of them should ever decide to leave Jehovah’s Organization. This is important to note just in case you are starting to believe that the Witness helping you “study the Bible” places great value on you as a human being who is not yet a member of Jehovah’s Organization.
As you try to answer the question of whether or not this really is that one true religion, it is an absolute necessity to learn to sort through the comments and information. Find and read literature that is logical and fact based. I would recommend starting with the book “Captives of a Concept” by Don Cameron. The reason why I would recommend that is because it addresses the very foundation of the religion you are considering. The entire belief system of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is based on the appointment of the “Faithful and Discrete Slave.” All of their information is produced by this same “Faithful and Discrete Slave.” All of their obedience and loyalty is to this “Faithful and Discrete Slave.” All of their literature indicates that you can only have a relationship with God THROUGH this “Faithful and Discrete Slave.” In his book, Don Cameron offers definitive, clear, and easy to read evidence of why they are in fact not qualified to be that “Faithful and Discrete Slave.” On this premise, all of their other doctrines rest. Keep searching. It is an important journey worthy of a thorough search. -
quietlyleaving
pickled I replied to you on this thread
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/154105/2819070/post.ashx#2819070
I have come to believe that many stay JW for reasons other than a desire for truth
ql
-
Pickled
Quietlyleaving, you wrote:
“The point I was trying to make is that JWs focus very much on the writings attributed to Paul and on his example to fuel their zeal in the ministry. I realise at least that, that is what I did. In recognising that we 'victims participated in victimizing others' we have to acknowledge the huge part the apostle Paul played in the process through his interpretation of Jesus Christ (a light bulb moment for me)”
“I guess we have to acknowledge that Paul (with the best intentions) had been a victimser before he became a christian and he continued to victimise after with as much zeal. Do his writings bring out the vicitmser in one? And if they do shouldn't we be careful to acknowledge that?”
Thank you so much for responding to that question. I didn’t see your response because it was on another thread.
I also had a tremendous light bulb moment about the same thing as well, so I am particularly interested in your thoughts about this. My light bulb moment occurred when I decided to take just the words of Jesus that were recorded and compare them with all the other writings in the New Testament. What stood out to me was just how little Jesus spoke about things that Paul went on to interpret in terms of structure, organization, and judgment. You are exactly right, in my opinion, about acknowledging the words of a man who also had his own interpretation of someone else’s message. I am still on a journey and this was one realization along the way that I am still pondering. -
minimus
So, did Paul speak out of turn? Were his words inspired (if you believe in the Bible as being inspired)?
-
Pickled
Minimus, I find it interesting that Paul, while still Saul of Tarsus, made himself the self-appointed judge, jury, and executioner of Christians. He was a devout Pharisee, those known as “the separate ones” who kept their distance from social customs and rituals including marriage. His instructor in The Law had been a very well known and highly revered Rabbi, and Saul’s life was the extreme version of every belief the Pharisees embraced. Disregarding the very important Mosaic commandment to not murder, Saul incited others to carry out the deed. At the time of Stephens’ death, when those who killed him placed Stephens’ clothes at the feet of Saul, indicating that Saul was the one who was giving the authority and approval for this murder, Saul was not yet 30 years old. Saul was on a mission as an individual, to hunt down members of this new cult called “The Way.” This was not standard practice for a Pharisee, and seems to indicate that Saul viewed his behavior as more important in that it was an act of obedience that had the stamp of approval from Yahweh Himself; an idea that Paul later indicates in his writings.
At some point during his murdering spree, the scriptures indicate that Saul was traveling on the road to Damascus. I find it interesting that not just any ordinary holy spirit filled Apostle would do in delivering a message to Saul. Considering the importance Saul placed on his own role in life as one who was separate and above all others, it makes sense that he writes that it was none other than Jesus of Nazareth himself that had a special message for him. What follows that special message is an event that looks very much like a psychological condition known as Hysterical Blindness that sometimes accompanies an extreme amount of psychological stress, or a mental snapping point. My intention is not to minimize or mock the Bible’s account of Saul’s conversion experience however it does raise a very important question…..
The scriptures indicate that Jesus had the ability to discern or know the thoughts of those around him. If the bible account is true, then it seems likely that Jesus had even more of an ability to do that in spirit form after he ascended to the Father that he did while inhabiting a fleshly body. At the very least, his vantage point would have been broader. So if Jesus had the ability and the intention to confront Saul with the question about why he was persecuting the Christians…..why the delay? How many Christians needed to be executed before Jesus exercised his ability to put a stop to it?
Saul was not a follower, and neither was Paul. Saul generated conflict and believed that his version of his belief system was a mandate from Yahweh. As the Apostle Paul, the conflicts continued. I also find it interesting that among the acts of miracles and special insight and power given to the Apostles via the holy spirit, one of the things that the holy spirit did not divulge was the fact that Saul had been converted. I think it was Barnabas who had to convince them of that and mediated on Paul’s behalf.
Saul was a powerful, charismatic, and polarizing figure who interpreted the messages of his religious beliefs in an individualized and solitary way. It just seems that there is evidence that Paul did the same thing. Did Jewish laws give Saul the authority to say and do what he did? Did he go on to interpret the words of Jesus in the same way he handled his former interpretations of The Law? It is something to consider. -
minimus
If we assume the Bible is correct and that Paul was made an apostle by Christ, it would be odd, to me, that he'd be the writer of so many Bible books and that his words would hold so much weight. He was not a superfine apostle and others found fault with his style and approach. But for me to not accept that he was indeed an apostle to the nations, I would have to reject his conversion to Christianity and his ultimate life change.