What Satanic Rituals??? (page 3)

silentlambs

Name was used along with symbols and specifc instruments.

Satanus

Silent

Have you seen the symbols hidden subliminally in the wt lit? If some of them were the same as those to which you refer.... A comparison would be interesting. Just thinking.

Judith

Silent

What you have written is what I was told by a woman in a counseling session. Unbelievable atrocities committed against children.

One tries not to believe because it is so disgusting, so evil, so unimaginable that anyone could use and abuse a child.

And thinking that the WTS is from God, it becomes dismissed as rumor or apostates making things up to cause trouble.

I hope these sub-humans are dealt with quickly so that other children may be saved from this horror.

JJ

I'm wondering how any of us lay persons can tell what stories are true and which ones are not? That is a genuine question. The reason I ask is because in the early 90s, psychologists investigating child abuse cases in the US also came up with remarkably similar stories in varied geographic locations -- and yet it later turned out that these weren't real, but ideas implanted into these individuals by the psychologists prompting them and by societal hysteria. Again, I stress that there are always individual freaks who do awful things to others, but every attempt to find organized satanic ritual abuse has failed. Once again, those who remember these events will never believe their memories aren't 100% real, and who I am to dispute them? But my question above is genuine based on what happened a decade ago throughout the U.S. What hard evidence exists? Memories alone, as flawed as they are, are not sufficient to prove anything.

As for the Memorial being a Satanic ritual because virtually everyone refuses the emblems, keep in mind one thing: Those who accuse JWs of being involved in the occult always refer back to Russell as being the source of such occult teachings. Yet in Russell's day everyone partook! In most of Rutherford's day, everyone partook. It wasn't until late in Rutherford's day, and especially in Knorr's day that it was established that most persons refused the emblems. Was Knorr the big occult leader of the WT? First I've heard of it. This would mean Russell was the good guy, and Knorr the occult guy. I dunno, that sounds wrong to me. Chalk this up to a coincidence that the JW teaching led them to perform something similar to satanic rituals because of the end-result of that teaching had only one possible outcome.

I'm all for finding out all sorts of nasty truths about JWs, but I always come back to one bedrock principle: solid evidence. For having this view, I've been indirectly accused of all sorts of horrible things, as if I had some hidden motive in all this. I don't. I just want the facts in a way that I can show a JW, and if they challenge it I can say, "Look at this solid evidence," instead of having to say, "Well, this person has a memory."

Judith

Seeker.

Is it not up to the JW's to prove that these things don't happen? So many have come forward to testify to the abuse. Can they all be lying? Is there not more evidence of truth when many tell the same stories of abuse?

I cannot prove the abuse I received from my x husband or my father, but I have the mental scars, the behaviors, the survivor attitude.

A JW will turn your story, no matter how much evidence you have, upside down and inside out. They will twist and turn you until you think perhaps you or others have made things up or it is not really that bad.

There is the evidence of the UN involvement and when showing this document to JW's they poo poo it as apostate propaganda. And they tell you about a library card and then it is just fine isn't it.

I was teetering on the edge of believing no more and then, cleaning the JW puss from my eyes, they were riding the beast, locking their doors to the people in New York, lies abounded about their helping.

And by the way, Are those Sodimites coming back or not? Where's the proof?

Is the Governing Body getting it's info directly from God? Where's the proof?

Is blood acceptable by Bible standards? Has it always been acceptable by Bible standards? Are the GB eating Kosher meat that has been bled properly? Are we still under the law to do that? Where's the proof?

New Light?, Old Light?, Whoops! New Light again. Where's the proof?

JJ

Seeker

Is it not up to the JW's to prove that these things don't happen?

Would be nice, but how do you prove a negative? If I accuse them of being aliens in human form, how would they go about proving this is not true? How could I prove to someone else that I am not an alien in human form?

What are your suggestions for the WTS (not that they will listen to any of us, of course)?

So many have come forward to testify to the abuse. Can they all be lying? Is there not more evidence of truth when many tell the same stories of abuse?

It is not lying, but it could still be not true. If a person has a memory, it is real to them. Couple that with actual abuse that certainly does take place, physical and sexual, and you have a real hard puzzle to figure out. Can it be that some abusers decide to take on Satanic rituals because they have heard stories of such? I guess it's possible.

But back to your questions, what if we were talking about blue Smurf doll urban legends among the JWs. Would it not be also possible to ask, "So many have come forward to testify to the stories. Can they all be lying?" Well, no matter how many JWs passed on these stories of Smurf dolls walking up the aisle, it still didn't happen. Anecdotes and memories are tricky things, and that's all I am saying. More evidence is needed to the outside observer since anecdotal evidence and memories have often proved faulty.

SixofNine

SilentLambs,

In view of the obvious good that you can do with verifiable abuse cases, I suggest you think long and hard about giving credence of any kind to these unverifiable "satanic" ritual stories. Your work is to important to be sidetracked by sensationalism.

This shit is as old as the hills. It NEVER* pans out to be real. It is one mass urban legend, that has gone beyond its beginnings to become urban myth.

As for the cases coming your way, I'm not the least surprised. In fact, I would have expected it. The WT leaders are certainly moral scum, but let's be honest, in every congregation there are a couple of families who stayed home watching the Jerry Springer special on satanist when they should have been out in service , if you catch my drift.

*never is probably a bit too dogmatic, but you know what I mean.

Judith

Seeker.

Points well taken.

Can't prove that Smurf dolls didn't do what they are accused of doing. A rational person would find it highly unlikely. But abuse that has been documented in other areas aside from the WTS, make it more plausable that abuse did happen. So sorry for victims who are not believed. Yes, I agree that some memories are false and some real memories are added to but we all know abuse happens. As to Satanic rituals, I have never witnessed it, only heard about it, but don't know enough to expound it.

Anything conceived by the human mind is possible but not provable. Hmmm. Will have to give further thought.

JJ

Mindchild

Nathan...

Well Radar started it by looking at your posting name backwards but I decided to look up "Nathan" and it made me wonder...

From the American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:

In the Bible, a prophet during the reigns of David and Solomon.

From the dictionary of Totally Unofficial Rap
1) (adj) Nothing; nobody. "I ain't heard shit, I ain't heard nathan" -- The Coup (Genocide & Juice.
2) (n) "Nathan's" is a brand of hot dog.
3) (n) Natural born pimp.

Okay, so spill the beans... Nathan are you really Satan's prophetic hot dog? LOL!

Skipper

All great deeds and all great thoughts have ridiculous beginnings--Albert Camus

Nathan Natas

Skipper, who do YOU say I am?

Silentlambs - you have done more good for the cause of truth and justice than any army of cherubs, but I must agree with Seeker and 6of9 on some of the very important points they make.

For openers, you joined the conversation by telling us that you have heard allegations of Satanic Rituals from folks all over the country, and mentioned

Things like animal sacrifice, child sacrifice, CO's and DO's in charge along with prominent elders, video taping of child molestation, specific rituals that lead up to the abuse, groups of children being involved, the gatherings were often called called family studies for a cover, threats of death if ever told to the outside.

I would think that animal or child sacrifice, videos, molestation marks and the ritual parapheranalia would all be some sort of physical evidence. Yet physical evidence is never produced.

For the sake of your own credibility I urge you to use restraint and caution, do not buy in to manufactured or false memories. The work you have done in aiding victims of real abuse is too important.

The account of child abuse and child pornography you offered you yourself said did not have an overt "demonic" component to it. Yes, it was an evil and disgusting deed, and yes it does raise more questions about the WTS' devotion to "righteousness," but it has nothing to do with demons, because demons do not exist.

Further, I believe that injecting suggestions of "demons" or "satan" into your work will weaken and possibly discredit it. Stick with what can be verified.

When you can offer verification of demons or satan, I'll be among the most interested parties.

What Satanic Rituals???

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