External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday 122 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jgnat

  I'll still throw down my experience on the table. Though I won't try and convince you, I am personally convinced that God rescued me from a miserable future. My life is the testimony - recovering from an abusive marriage, raising two children with love and care, and continually growing in to a compassionate human being. It's God's love for me, regardless, that inspires me to give the same love and patience to others.

  The witnesses? People who know me, and my children. Can I convince everyone? Obviously not. My husband is convinced, under his worldview, that I am an "unbelieving mate". Isn't that ironic?
• 

  Big Tex

  So this thread would be for actual proof of God

  Forgive me, but this is a subject that I am interested in, but angered at the same time.

  There was a time, 4 decades ago, I begged and pleaded for God to stop monsters from raping and hurting me. The memory is clear as a cold, winter's night.

  It did not stop.

  Now that I am older, I realize there are millions of people who undergo far worse than I ever did.

  I am now convince that one of 3 possibilites exist: (1) God exists and just doesn't give a damn; (2) God exists, but is an IBM/Microsoft-like CEO who is remote, distant and uncaring about the little people in the mail room; or (3) we really are on our own and there is no Power greater than ourselves.

  I was born in Missouri. Show me.
• 

  Tuesday

  I am personally convinced that God rescued me from a miserable future. My life is the testimony - recovering from an abusive marriage, raising two children with love and care, and continually growing in to a compassionate human being. It's God's love for me, regardless, that inspires me to give the same love and patience to others.

  I think that is admirable you live this way. Personally I found that I live a better life thinking there is no God because every good deed is the reward in and of itself. I'm not trying to score cosmic brownie points for an everlasting reward.

  I'm sorry to say though, this is still subjective evidence. The witnesses may be able to testify that you did turn your life around and become a better person, they can't verify that God is the chief cause of this or that he is specifically intervening in your life to force you to turn out this way. Many people who are in abusive relationships strive to show the same compassion and love they wanted during this relationship as a reaction to such abuse. You feel that it is God's love causing you to do this, a subjective feeling. Many witnesses say the same thing about love for Jehovah turning their lives around, and also say it makes them strive to be better people. Once again it is very nice to hear you have turned your life around and I wish you continued happiness in the future.

  External, Observable, Verifiable.
• 

  oompa

  I woke up naked one morning after a WILD party and there was a naked women in bed with me I had never seen before. I also had a very sore rib area with a new 6 inch scar...........you figure.........oompa
• 

  Hortensia

  "Thus if science says the universe had a beginning, there must have been a "cause" bringing it about."

  Doesn't follow. If science says the universe had a beginning, doesn't necessarily mean there was a cause, in the religious sense of a creator. Maybe in the sense of one thing producing another - an event producing a result. If the big bang wasn't the beginning, doesn't necessarily mean there was a beginning.
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  hamilcarr

  What is the relationship between the creator and its creation --- imo this is one of the great questions at stake? If one asserts that God doesn't need a creator, why would creation need a creator? Why is it impossible to imagine that matter itself is eternal without the need to postulate someone who created it?
• 

  lovelylil

  Good Morning Tuesday!

  First of all, you admit in your post in response to mine that the universe "had a beginning", but you say I am assuming that if it had a beginning, something caused it? Well, my friend, I am not assuming anything. I am using a basic scientific principle which is "cause and effect". Since science teaches that the universe had a beginning, it must have had a "cause".

  Again, the big bang theory only explains the expansion of the universe or how it grew to the point it is now. Not how it originally came into being or existance or what caused the universe to begin.

  So the scientific principle that to have a beginning, there must have been a cause, (cause and effect) has to stand.

  Secondly, Science says they do not know what the cause was. So automatically even THEY cannot rule out that the cause was God. I am asserting that this "cause" was God and I am basing my assertion on the following "evidences". #1 the universe HAD a beginning (as per science) and thus had a "cause". #2 scientists do not know what the "cause" was, so God cannot absolutly be ruled out as a possiblity for that cause #3 I am saying the cause was indeed God and support is given in the Bible for this view; Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created (or caused) the heavens and the earth"

  Now, my evidence stands unless you can contradict it. Since you are the one putting "on trial" my view, the burden of proof falls on you to show evidence that proves otherwise. You simply cannot do that at this time because to do so you will first have to contradict the scientific principle of "cause and effect" which is my first evidence.

  By saying "nothing caused it", is not enough. Because science says this is impossible. Again, to have a beginning, you MUST have a cause. Now, you must disprove that scientific theory. Until then, this case is closed. Peace, Lilly
• 

  lovelylil

  Tuesday,

  I just went back and read your reply to me and I must say it is the worst reasoning I have ever seen against "cause and effect". Here is my point. You said this;

  Just because the matter broke apart doesn't mean it needed a cause for it to happen, I drop a hammer on my foot, it doesn't require a cause it just happened.

  I assert that dropping a hammer on your foot does indeed require a cause - the "cause" was you let go of the hammer. If you do not let go of the hammer (cause), it could not drop and hit your foot.

  Here is another gem, you said;

  Your next comment I'm sure will be something like "Well then what created the matter?" The answer is nothing, it was always there.

  So you admit that some "things" can always exist and have no beginning?

  Then I can rightfully assert that God is one of those "things".

  This is my favorite and actually makes a good case for God. You say;

  There's a theory of Matter (which the name escapes me now but was brought up in the Rational Response Squad's debate with Kirk Cameron) which states that matter/energy just always existed.

  Tuesday, What IS God exactly? No one really knows. But, there are many scriptural texts that try to describe God, which is virtually impossible. But he is often discribed as a "brightness" never before seen, or "glorious bright light" that we cannot see or we will die. Anther verse calls him "an abundance of dynamic energy". So "God" could very well be the "energy" you say always existed.

  The same goes for matter. Matter is what makes up everything and is in everything correct?

  Ephesians 4:6

  6 one God and Father of all, who is over alland through all and in all.

  What exactly does it mean to be in all and through all?

  I don't really know but if God exists (and I assert that he does) he must be made of some kind of matter and the Bible says he is "in all, and through all". Again, you claim that some matter and energy always existed. I say I agree and that this matter and energy that always existed is "GOD" And since NO ONE knows what God "IS" exactly, because peole have only seen God in the flesh, as the person of Jesus Christ, and not "him" in his original form, we cannot rule out this possibility. Peace, Lilly
• 

  journey-on

  I'm not going to get into this fray, because these arguments are silly. There have been dozens of these "God exists...no He doesn't...give me proof...no, that's not proof"

  banters, and they are impossible to solve. But I just wanted to say one thing: Look at my avatar. You see where "we" are? A tiny grain of sand on a vast beach called

  The Milky Way and this galaxy is but a tiny grain of sand on another vast beach called the Universe. When I hear people argue about the existence of God and start

  spouting off that Science says this and Science says that, it makes me just shake my head. If the Earth is so insignificant, think how insignificant a man is or a group

  of men are that call themselves Almighty Scientists. They KNOW nothing! The amount of scientific knowledge seems huge to us, but it is so small and insignificant

  when applied to the real BIG PICTURE, that I am constantly amazed at how people play this card as if it was the all-knowing sage of all things.

  I believe (notice I said "believe") the Universe is conscious. It is NO THING....it is incorporeal....it is Pure Consciousness. The moment this Consciousness "decided"

  to create or bring into manifestation the physical universe, SOME THING began.
• 

  mkr32208

  The universe has always existed. All energy all matter all have always been. The universe expands and contracts again and again over billions and trillions of years. The universe is currently slowing in it's expansion. In a couple trillion years it will collapse again under it's own gravity to the size of a single molecule then it will bang again. New galaxies will form new planets on some life will arise anew... Eventually some form of Al Gore will invent the Internet on one of those planets and trillions of years from now this thread will start again...

  The only thing that thread and this will have in common is that there will be no invisible magical fairy then either...