What do we have to do to get Gods' Attention

by LouBelle 87 Replies latest jw friends

  • trevor
    trevor

    A Guest

    Thank you for your long answer explaining how you are not a slave in the way that most people portray slaves, but a friend of Christ.

    Perhaps you overestimate your status as a slave? At the same time you overestimate how much choice you have now that you are a slave of Christ.

    ‘Who among you would say to your slave who has just come in from ploughing or tending sheep in the field, “Come here at once and take your place at the table”? Would you not rather say to him, “Prepare supper for me, put on your apron and serve me while I eat and drink; later you may eat and drink”? Do you thank the slave for doing what was commanded? So you also, when you have done all that you were ordered to do, say, “We are worthless slaves; we have done only what we ought to have done!” Luke 17:7-10

    To be a friend of Christ you would have to share equal rights. All the while he is your Lord and Master and holds power over you, you remain a slave in every sense of the word.

    You have escaped enslavement to sin only to become enslaved to Christ. The penalty for changing your mind is to become an enemy of Christ and suffer the penalty.

    Fortunately all these enslavements exist only in your mind. True freedom can only be enjoyed by free men and women. Those who have seen through religious slavery and started to enjoy their birthright of being born free of sin and free of religion.

    Trevor

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    BurnTheShips - a comment made earlier about those have faith in expectation of a reward, what about those that don't, those that are trully committed to God no matter what, surely God could "throw them some scraps" - Why create an earth if all God is worried about is your soul?

    Real one - god has got all the time in the universe, humans don't so, WHEN he is ready to do whatever, so many that could have perhaps been saved - aren't.

    A Guest - I do appreciate your comments and read it all. I've spent these last 3 years getting to know god, and not through the bible either, searching my soul, and I still don't like what I see and as his creation I believe I have every right to question him - he brought about this world, he should care for it! Yes I'm only human with limited thinking and that is why god, if he wanted, could reach out a lot more clearly... My superman comment was purely in jest - I couldn't care about gods' looks, I care about his actions.

    Why should god reach out to me?.....because he himself professes he wishes that no man should be destroyed - I've been trying on my side, perhaps it's not good enough, perhaps god feels he needs to drive me to the edge of all reasoning to make his point, perhaps I need to go to the depths of depression to hear his voice - that isn't necessary, that isn't love.....just take my outstreatched hand. If he doesn't want it - it's his loss. Perhaps you think I have no place speaking like that but if you're created in his image - you're pretty much equal.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Your comments have no place or proof in reality. They are weak and based on things that you cannot prove.

    Look up.

    The subject of the thread is God. We are discussing the empirically unprovable. You can meet me on that ground if you like, otherwise your objection is meaningless.

    Burn

  • Galileo
    Galileo
    Why should god reach out to me?.....because he himself professes he wishes that no man should be destroyed - I've been trying on my side, perhaps it's not good enough, perhaps god feels he needs to drive me to the edge of all reasoning to make his point, perhaps I need to go to the depths of depression to hear his voice - that isn't necessary, that isn't love.....just take my outstretched hand.

    Amen. God knows exactly what each of us needs in order to believe. He could have created us to just know that he exists, and to know which god is the real one. He could have prevented so much misery, war, terrorism, destruction of families, depression, despair, etc. etc. Instead he chooses to hide. If that god did exist, I wouldn't worship him anyway. The kindest conclusion you could come to, from god's standpoint, is to say that he doesn't exist. If you assume he does exist, it is almost inevitable that you must also assume he is also insane, petty, or evil. Probably all three.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips - a comment made earlier about those have faith in expectation of a reward, what about those that don't, those that are trully committed to God no matter what, surely God could "throw them some scraps" - Why create an earth if all God is worried about is your soul?

    I can only speak to my own experience. I really can't complain of my lot.

    And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    It seems a universal axiom that good comes only through sacrifice and suffering. Human life comes into this vale of tears only through effort and pain.

    Why must it be this way?

    I don't know.

    Burn

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Thank you for your long answer...

    My sincerest apologies. I am verbose, I am sorry to say. A life-long "fault," one I have battled with and finally accepted. Hope you can "hang in there" with me.

    explaining how you are not a slave in the way that most people portray slaves, but a friend of Christ.

    Yes!

    Perhaps you overestimate your status as a slave? At the same time you overestimate how much choice you have now that you are a slave of Christ.
    ‘Who among you would say to your slave who has just come in from ploughing or tending sheep in the field, “Come here at once and take your place at the table”? Would you not rather say to him, “Prepare supper for me, put on your apron and serve me while I eat and drink; later you may eat and drink”? Do you thank the slave for doing what was commanded? So you also, when you have done all that you were ordered to do, say, “We are worthless slaves; we have done only what we ought to have done!” Luke 17:7-10

    I am the first to say, dear Trevor, that I AM... a "good for nothing slave" and what I do is only what I ought to have done anyway. Doesn't matter: folks question that, as well.

    To be a friend of Christ you would have to share equal rights. All the while he is your Lord and Master and holds power over you, you remain a slave in every sense of the word.

    I take no issue with what Luke wrote, Trevor; however, what Luke wrote is not what my Lord has since said to me. Rather, it is what John wrote:

    "I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master does. But I have called you friends, because all the things I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go on bearing fruit and that you fruit should remain; in order that no matter what you ask the Father in my name he might give it to you." John 15:15, 16

    True, John wrote it when my Lord spoke it to my brothers earlier, but it is my truth also, for my Lord himself said these same words to me. And so, while I now know that I am his friend, I still CHOOSE to be his slave.

    You have escaped enslavement to sin only to become enslaved to Christ. The penalty for changing your mind is to become an enemy of Christ and suffer the penalty.

    That smacks of Paul, and while it is true to some sense, it is not entirely accurate. Although his motive and intent was pure, Paul was often inaccurate. Which is why I choose... to follow NO ONE... but the Christ. To respond to your statement, however, yes, I was indeed set free from sin by means of my Lord; and, as a result, I am now TRULY free, just as he said:

    "Therefore, if the SON sets you free, you are TRULY free."

    A FREE person... is not a slave. Thus, my Lord does not compel me to be his slave. It is my GRATITUDE for his releasing and my LOVE of him for doing so, particularly in the manner that he did, that compels me. Neither God nor Christ want forced service, dear Trevor. That was Israel's first mistake - assuming that they could please God and Christ by "works" (i.e., "thou shall... thou shalt not..."). The TRUTH is that both only want us to serve them IF we WANT to. Anything else is actually null and void. Thus, if I claim to accept the blood of Christ as atonement for my sins, but I follow him around mumbling and grumbling about the "works" he assigns, or "begging off", or somehow otherwise depising the "bond" of the New Covenant, of what benefit is that? If I go around telling people, "Hey, this One set me free, but the cost is that I now HAVE to follow him," of what benefit is it? True, there were some to whom my Lord said, "Follow me," but such ones did so voluntarily, yes? Yes, because he didn't say, "Follow me, or else." And others, once cleansed, healed, resurrected, whatever, he told, "Go YOUR way..." But, out of love and gratitude (and I give you Mary the Magdalene as a foremost example)... they followed him. Wherever he went. NOT because he said they had to... but because they WANTED to.

    The premise that you appear to be promoting (and I may misunderstand you; please forgive me, if I do) is one of the VERY reasons that people DON'T seek Christ. They have been misled to understand that being under the New Covenant is really not much different than being under the Old. That is not the case, however: the Old WAS a compulsory enslavement... while the New is a RELEASING from such type of slavery. We who have received the free gift of holy spirit follow that One... BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM... for what he HAS done... NOT because we fear death if we don't. And THAT'S why we go WHEREVER he goes, even if it seems to be a treacherous "wilderness,"... and do/say whatever he tells us, even if it seems impossible. As Paul did rightly state:

    "Who will separate us from the LOVE of the Christ? Will tribulation or distress or persecution or hunger or nakedness or danger or sword? Just as it is written: 'For YOUR sake WE are being put to death all day long, WE have been accounted as sheep for slaughtering.' To the CONTRARY, in all these things WE are coming off victorious THROUGH HIM THAT LOVED US. For [WE] are CONVINCED that neither DEATH... NOR LIFE... nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor HEIGHT nor depth nor ANY OTHER CREATION will be able to separate us from God's LOVE that is in Christ [JAHESHUA] our Lord."

    Most of us here would do ANYTHING for someone we loved, particularly if we also felt indebted to that one. LOVE... is the "perfect" bond of our union with Christ, dear Trevor, starting with God and Christ's love for US first, and then ours for THEM... and for our fellowman. Because the LAW which SAVES us is:

    "You MUST love God... with your WHOLE heart, your WHOLE mind, your WHOLE soul and your WHOLE strength... AND... you must love your neighbor AS you love yourself."

    Love... is the Law's "fulfillment," Trevor... not keeping free from sin. Personally, I can't keep free from sin. I have sinned, I do sin... I am in sin now, as I write, and I will sin again before I leave this world. And not necessarily "little" sin. I might actually sin "big." BUT... there is a "propitiatory" for my sin, Christ, whose blood... so long as I exercise faith IN it... and in HIM... can and will "cover" my transgressions. That is, so long as I live by the LAW... of love... for love "covers a multitude of sins," and there is NO law against love.

    And, so, it is because I LOVE the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... that I choose to slave for them in the manner that I do.

    Fortunately all these enslavements exist only in your mind. True freedom can only be enjoyed by free men and women. Those who have seen through religious slavery and started to enjoy their birthright of being born free of sin and free of religion.

    I hope my response above helped you to see that such "enslavements" are not imaginary, but are quite actual and literal, and that perhaps you have again misunderstood me. Because I totally agree with this statement; yet, I openly and publicly acknowledge to you and everyone here that I AM a slave... to Christ... and servant to all those of his household... to time indefinite.

    I bid you peace.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ...

    SA

  • trevor
    trevor

    AGuest

    I have read your long reply to my post. You say that:

    Although his motive and intent was pure, Paul was often inaccurate.

    I had made the mistake of thinking that you believed that ALL scripture is inspired or God?

    Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. Your approach to belief and reality remind me why I moved beyond the things written in the Bible.

    I gain the impression that you are a sincere and kind person who is happy to be a believer. You should treasure your faith because the harsh glare of reality is not for everyone.

    May your God go with you.

    Trevor

  • Barbie Doll
    Barbie Doll

    When I was a child I prayed to God for help and things got worse. HE WILL NOT ANSWER.

    If there is a god his ears are deaf, or he no longer cares about his creation. He has abandonned the very people he supposedly died for
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Peace to you... and thank you for forgiving my verbosity!

    I had made the mistake of thinking that you believed that ALL scripture is inspired or God?

    I absolutely do believe that all SCRIPTURE is inspired. I do not, however, believe that everything contained in the Bible is "scripture" nor do I believe that "all" scripture is contained in the Bible. As my Lord once told me: "All that I tell you is written, but not all that is written is what I will tell you."

    Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. Your approach to belief and reality remind me why I moved beyond the things written in the Bible.

    If one is a true believer, then one MUST move beyond the things written in the Bible. For what is written there... "on stone tablets" and in delible ink... is for UNBELIEVERS. For believers, the things "beneficial" are written... on their hearts... by Christ.

    I gain the impression that you are a sincere and kind person who is happy to be a believer.

    Sincere? Hmmm, yeah, I think I am.

    Kind? Ummmm... ... let's just say I'm working on that and it's a daily battle. I have to pray for the "fruit" of the spirit that is kindness (among others) incessantly, let me tell you!

    Happy? Yeah, I am. That's not to say I haven't had my share of tragedy, grief, tribulation, etc. I have. Maybe more than most here. But I am happy, in spite of it. Why? Because I now know I am loved... by God and Christ... and that I love them... and that because of this, I can through them...openly and honestly love anyone else I want to. I don't have to hide or restrain my love... for God, Christ, or anyone else. And so it just goes out from there.Giving love... is a POWERFUL healer, dear Trevor!

    You should treasure your faith because the harsh glare of reality is not for everyone.

    I absolutely do... and thank you for saying so.

    May your God go with you.

    And yours with you.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • jwblog
    jwblog

    Well, the bible is the only source we have for guidance and direction. If you read it you will know that such knowledge and wisdom could not have originated with man because more times than none, man acts in opposition to what is written in the bible.

    It also foretells the future. Geologic evidence coincides with biblical accounts. World history also coincides with biblical accounts. Things written in the bible were written before they actually occurred; hance a book of prophecy was given to humans in order to build faith while Gods Will takes place.

    We cannot be forced to love God therefore we have the opportunity to live with free will. Even those in the heavens had free will otherwise there would have never been a satan, the rebel. This is only for a period of time then The Almighty will take over according to what is written.

    Do not give up on your prayers and have faith that all words in the bible will be fulfilled according to the promises set forth. God knows our trials and tribulations therefore raise your head up high as many prophecies have been fulfilled according to what is written.

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