here is a short answer: obey him
What do we have to do to get Gods' Attention
by LouBelle 87 Replies latest jw friends
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jwblog
Ok, just briefly. We are talking about the one who created all things, GOD. He has the power to control the rain, wind, fire etc. etc. He made sure those that were worthy of salvation survived. Where does it say that there was salt water anywhere upon the earth in the beginning? When it rains water drifts downward from the high areas to the lower until the bottoms fill like a bath tub of course. It is possible that some chemicals mixed together to form salt water from the water pouring down from the highest regions downward. It does say that GOD destroyed the earth as well. As for the Ark it says that it begin to float as the waters raised so there is no written evidence that suggests it driftes aimlessly. Remember we should not go beyond what is written. It is obvious that living things to adapt and in example, your skin becomes darker when exposed to the sun as a protection from the rays. Evolution as I know it is where one species forms into another such as a dog turning into a cat. Which monkey species did you evolve from? I will make it a point to go visit your grandfather......jk of course :) There is no evidence whatsoever that one species can evolve into another. What makes me wonder is how all life have the same similarities such as eyes to see, a brain to think, and reproductive organs. Where did a sloth evolve from if man evolved from ape? Makes no sense does it. By the way I work in the area of civil, environmental design engineering etc etc. Everything requires a designer in order to have order and perfect design. Things do not create themselves.......I have no wish to hijack this thread or be argumentative. You seem to be sincere, however, so I will address the issues you raised. I sincerely suggest that you also do your own independent (read: scientific, not creationist propaganda) research. If you wish further discussion about Noah's flood, a new thread would probably be in order.
Fish swim so no need to rescue fish and all those that swim. Birds fly, others can find refuge correct?
No. No part of this statement is correct. Sea life have evolved to require very specific environments. Drastic changes in temperature, water pessure, even PH levels would result in the extinction of many, if not all, species. Salt water species cannot live in fresh water and vice versa. The combining of all the worlds bodies of water into one would cause the salt water and fresh water to combine, with obviously toxic results.
But there is an even worse problem: The sheer volume of water. In order to cover the tops of all the Earth's mountains, it has been estimated that an estimated 4.55 Bilion cubic kilometers of water would need to fall in the 40 days the bible claims for the flood. Water condensing from vapor releases heat. The amount of heat generated by that volume of water would have raised the surface temperature of the earth to around 1600 degrees Celsius, hot enough to evaporate all the water in the oceans, let alone kill whatever miraculous fish had survived the massive destruction of their living environment.
As for the birds, what refuge could they find? The entire Earth was an ocean. Some could possibly have stayed aloft for a short time in this torrential downpour the likes of which the world had never seen, but surely even the most stout could not have survived more than a few days in such conditions, and that's being generous. It's also clear that Noah is depicted as having birds on the Ark, as indicated that he released some at the end of the flood. This brings up another interesting point: A flood of that magnitude, with the Earth totally submerged in water for over a month, would have killed all the trees. Where was that magic fig tree that the dove found?
God can guide His creation by Holy Spirit evident by the swines being led over the cliff and many more wonders. So He can easily guide the animals to the Ark. I have a question for you. Did the Ark drift aimlessly through the waters?
Actually your original point was about the geological evidence for the flood, which is why I directed you to the point on that site where they talk about the geology of an Earth-wide flood event. I will grant you that if the flood story is true God could have miraculously led the animals to the Ark. I will not, however, stand by while you accuse the Hoy Spirit of porkicide! It was the legion of demons that Jesus exorcised from the possessed man that caused the pigs to run over the cliff. The holy spirit mearly directed them to the pigs.
As to the point about the Ark drifting aimlessly, if the story were true, then I suppose not.
Did the cities mentioned in the bible exist? What about Solomons temple and Zerubabel (sp) temple? Did they exist and who built them? And what exactly is your theory about the origin of man? And what truth are you talking about? The teachings that JW's give.
The city of Tokyo exists, that doesn't mean I think Godzilla is a documentary. My theory of the origin of man is irrelevant, as the issue here is whether the flood story is accurate. However, I believe there is massive, overwhelming evidence that man evolved from lower species. That took me a while to come around to, however. I stopped believing the bible was inspired long before I came to accept evolution. In fact I was a atheist before I accepted evolution.
When I mentioned the truth it was somewhat tongue in cheek, since the JW's call their entire religion "The Truth", yet they are far from it.
What is it you have to teach me that might better my life? I am reading intently :)
I don't consider myself a teacher or a leader of a movement. I may indeed be able to teach you things that will better your life, but bettering your life is your responsibility, not mine. But I don't think that's the point you were trying to make. So is your point that you would follow the JW's or some other attractive teaching, regardless of whether it's true, in order to better your life? How sad. The issue for me is the truth. The truth may be that I have cancer. Is that going to make me happy? No. But if it's the truth, I want to know. If we know what the truth is, then we can adjust our lives accordingly. -
BurnTheShips
Ok, just briefly. We are talking about the one who created all things, GOD. He has the power to control the rain, wind, fire etc. etc. He made sure those that were worthy of salvation survived. Where does it say that there was salt water anywhere upon the earth in the beginning? When it rains water drifts downward from the high areas to the lower until the bottoms fill like a bath tub of course. It is possible that some chemicals mixed together to form salt water from the water pouring down from the highest regions downward. It does say that GOD destroyed the earth as well.
If we look at this from the traditional Biblical perspective, not all the water needed to come from above, Galileo's objections notwithstanding. Some, maybe even the vast majority, of the water could have come from below, not above. This water could have already been saline since it did not go through the evaporation/ condensation process of rain water and it was in intimate contact with the minerals and salt deposits below.
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. Burn -
jwblog
Going back to the original topic. He already has our attention. What loving God would create living beings only to watch them suffer hence; Jesus Christ the savior. He was raised to save us all from our own destructive ways. God did not tell His creation to disobey laws that have proven to create problems for everyone.
Say all creation obeyed the law. There would never be a need for discipline from the One that created us. We were allowed a chance to choose Gods way or the wicked way, which is lawlessness. This is also loving if you think in a grand way. It is true that all life has had to suffer. No one wants to live under a ruler that commands people to listen by force and vilolence. This is what humans do and God will once again allow all living things to choose right or wrong after learning what lawlessness causes. This time around all living things will know their Creator in His True Person, a Loving GOD.
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LouBelle
jwblog - if you read the creation of man very carefully you'll note it's not talking about a singular man and a singular women - don't have my bible on hand to point to the specific verses right now.
burn - I don't doubt that we have a common thread/dna but I know there was no one man called Adam that is my great great great great ..... grand daddy that living 6000 years ago (time frame according to Jws thinking)
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Satanus
jwblog
'What loving God would create living beings only to watch them suffer hence; Jesus Christ the savior.'
When did suffering end?
'No one wants to live under a ruler that commands people to listen by force and vilolence.'
What wiil god do w those who reject him and his commands, use force and violence on them?
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Sirona
Evolution as I know it is where one species forms into another such as a dog turning into a cat.
LOL
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Galileo
Ok, just briefly. We are talking about the one who created all things, GOD. He has the power to control the rain, wind, fire etc. etc. He made sure those that were worthy of salvation survived. Where does it say that there was salt water anywhere upon the earth in the beginning? When it rains water drifts downward from the high areas to the lower until the bottoms fill like a bath tub of course. It is possible that some chemicals mixed together to form salt water from the water pouring down from the highest regions downward. It does say that GOD destroyed the earth as well. As for the Ark it says that it begin to float as the waters raised so there is no written evidence that suggests it driftes aimlessly. Remember we should not go beyond what is written. It is obvious that living things to adapt and in example, your skin becomes darker when exposed to the sun as a protection from the rays. Evolution as I know it is where one species forms into another such as a dog turning into a cat. Which monkey species did you evolve from? I will make it a point to go visit your grandfather......jk of course :) There is no evidence whatsoever that one species can evolve into another. What makes me wonder is how all life have the same similarities such as eyes to see, a brain to think, and reproductive organs. Where did a sloth evolve from if man evolved from ape? Makes no sense does it. By the way I work in the area of civil, environmental design engineering etc etc. Everything requires a designer in order to have order and perfect design. Things do not create themselves.......
Oh....my....GOD!! Is this a joke? I have no idea where to begin correcting this gem of breathtaking ignorance. I guess I'll start with:
Where does it say that there was salt water anywhere upon the earth in the beginning? When it rains water drifts downward from the high areas to the lower until the bottoms fill like a bath tub of course. It is possible that some chemicals mixed together to form salt water from the water pouring down from the highest regions downward. It does say that GOD destroyed the earth as well.
If you believe that all the sea animals that require salt water to live evolved in the 4200 or so years since the flood, you believe in a much, much more radical form of evolution then I do. Take for just one example the seahorse. There is no freshwater seahorse that it could have adapted from, and it is radically different from the typical fish. From where did such a thing come? This is just one of a million examples I could have used. It isn't as though life in the sea is scarce.
Of course, you can always resort to magic, as in your opening remarks. Obviously an all powerful God could do anything. How did he control the change in atmospheric presssure? Magic. How did he pack every species of animal into one boat? Magic. Where did they store all the massive amounts of food, including live animals that many carnivorous animals require, and make sure none of it rotted in such a damp environment? Magic. How did they get rid of the methane gas that would have built up from all that animal waste? How did they get rid of the animal waste for that matter? How did a tiny crew take care of feeding and cleaning up after all those animals? Magic, Magic, Magic. The point was you initially stated there is EVIDENCE for a global flood, then when it is pointed out to you there is zero, that the evidence we have actually makes that impossible, you resort to magic. That is an untestable hypothesis that anyone could claim about anything.Evolution as I know it is where one species forms into another such as a dog turning into a cat. Which monkey species did you evolve from?
This statement reveals you know absolutely nothing about evolution. No one believes in the ridiculous scenario you described. Evolution absolutely does not say that we came from monkeys, or that a dog turned into a cat. No biologist alive thinks that ever happened, in fact, such a thing would be against evolutionary theory and would require us to go back to the drawing board.
What I really find amazing is the arrogance of someone that clearly knows zero about evolutionary theory, yet will actually argue about it. As I stated before, I was an atheist before I accepted evolution. Why? Because I belived then what you believe now, that evolution is nonsense. I believed that because my sources of information about evolution were from the WTB&TS, like the Creation book and the Creator book. What changed my mind? Learning the actual theory, from scientists that study it. It was only then I realized I had been deliberately misled by the people I had put my faith in, as you are now. Once again, I urge you to actually educate yourself on these topics. And I will once again reiterate that if you want to discuss either of these topics further, it would be a good idea to start a new thread. -
BurnTheShips
What wiil god do w those who reject him and his commands, use force and violence on them?
I don't think he will need to.
Do you walk around angry about how God forces you to obey gravity?
Burn
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AGuest
And may you ALL have peace!
if you read the creation of man very carefully you'll note it's not talking about a singular man and a singular women - don't have my bible on hand to point to the specific verses right now.
Actually, Lou, it was talking about the creation of one man... and one woman. The name "Adam" is aftually, "Ad-ham" which means "earthling man." Thus, God said, "Let us make earthling man (ad-ham) in our image." The result? The man we know as "Adam" was created.
Very unfortunately, misleading scholars have made the mistake of assuming this statement meant mankind, in general, from which the MYTH that WE are made in God's image originated. We were NOT made in God's image; ADAM was made in God's image... and WE were made in ADAM's image.
I was given this particular verse by my Lord when he explained to me the difference between him, Adam, and us, as well as who it was that being spoken about when God said, "Let us make ad-ham in our image." Before my Lord came in the flesh, only ONE man bore the image of God: Adam. Everyone else bore the image of ADAM... and its the image he had AFTER HE SINNED.
It is TRUE that we can reflect the image of God, by reflecting Christ, who is the EXACT IMAGE of God... by having his light show through us (rather than hiding it under a basket). But we will not actually BEAR the image of God UNTIL WE ARE RELEASED from the corruptible body, the "soiled garment"... the body made of flesh with its blood... and have put ON the INCORRUPTIBLE garment, the WHITE robe... the SPIRIT body... flesh with holy spirit... GOD'S blood... in it.
Now, for those who are adamant that we were made in God's image, but still tout the Bible as being the source we should look to for clarification, I give you 1 Corinthians 15:49, where Paul (who those who hold the Bible out as the word of God follow) stated:
"For just as WE have borne the IMAGE of the one MADE OF DUST, we SHALL bear the IMAGE of the heavenly one."
Thus, at the time Paul wrote this, he acknowledged that even HE did not bear the image of God, but bore the image of Adam. As we all do.
Where does it say that there was salt water anywhere upon the earth in the beginning? When it rains water drifts downward from the high areas to the lower until the bottoms fill like a bath tub of course. It is possible that some chemicals mixed together to form salt water from the water pouring down from the highest regions downward. It does say that GOD destroyed the earth as well.
This is close, if not substantially accurate. Almost every (if not every) geologist will tell you that the salt in the oceans did not originate there but came from the salt in the earth (i.e., "the salt of the earth"), whether washed downstream from higher regions (during a substantial rain - hmmmmm), or from beneath the ocean floor. They will also tell you that ALL water contains salt (or, "salts"); it's just that "fresh" water contains substantially less than "salt" water. Hope these help. Peace to you all! A slave of Christ, SA