I'm going to be frank, here, but it seems like there never really was a question in your mind over whether you were going back or not. It seems like you came on this site, cherry-picked a few of our more extreme posts, and used it to confirm the society's blanket "apostate" label.
When it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses, your mileage will vary. One thing about the organization is the extreme inconsistency from congregation to congregation. I'm not talking about doctrine, I'm talking about all the things that supposedly aren't doctrine. The elders could be playing laser tag in one congregation, but go to another one and you'll get your privileges taken away for it. In one congregation you could have a 19-year-old marrying a 16-year-old, when in another the Presiding Overseer will take you off the pioneer list if you date before 30. Every congregation has their own set of rules over what is kosher and what isn't. Personally, I've dealt with these differences and it's convinced me that Jehovah's Witnesses are certainly not "united in worship." They may study the same publications and believe some of the same things about the Bible, but the rules and regulations imposed by some elder bodies is appalling.
I'm not going to say that being on this site will bring disfellowshipping. You may live in the territory of a very liberal congregation. You seem to think we're saying that all the elders everywhere will react exactly the same. All we're doing is relating our individual experiences. Some aren't quite as rosy as yours apparently is. I will say this, the fact that your elders would allow you on this site means that they're violating the Watchtower Society's direction. Anyone from Brooklyn will tell you that someone openly reading message boards like this is a danger to the congregation.
Personally, my problem with the religion is its doctrine. It was one of their own books, Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy that started my course out of the faith. It contained vast logical leaps, glossing over inconvenient scriptures by saying they had "dual fulfillment," a doctrine with absolutely no basis whatsoever. It all unraveled for me after that. The scriptures they were using to describe paradise were actually describing the conditions of Jerusalem rebuilt in the context. There is no evidence that it has any other meaning. I saw how the Society strings together their doctrines with snippets of completely unrelated scriptures. I questioned their statement that God has always had an organization. I asked myself, who was God's organization from 100 CE to 1918 CE? Who was God's organization from the time of Adam to the time of the priesthood. Contrary to what the Watchtower teaches, the Bible consistently shows God communicating directly with one man, not an "organization" of men.
I began to ask myself more questions. Where in the Bible does it talk about the Apostles recording their time preaching? Where in the Bible does it talk about anyone but Apostles and those invited directly by them engaging in a public door-to-door ministry? Jesus said "go therefore and make disciples." He didn't say "go therefore, and divideth up the land into territories. Then all disciples should take a territory and completeth it every six months. Then all disciples shalt record their time and send it to the congregation in Jerusalem."
I realized one day that I just don't believe. Belief in God doesn't make sense to me. I left JWs, not because of people, but because I have many fundamental disagreements with the organization. I don't like how they are completely unaccountable. When they made predictions about the end, they called themselves "God's prophet." But when the predictions didn't come true, they say "we never called ourselves a prophet!" I cannot agree with the admonition in the September 2007 Kingdom Ministry that we shouldn't do any Bible research in private groups, learn Greek or Hebrew to check the validity of the New World Translation, or use books other than those published by the society in our research. This ruling flies in the face of intellectual freedom and reveals their tactics of information control.
Bottom line, I can't be a Jehovah's Witness because A) I don't believe in God, and B) even if I did, I don't believe in "the organization." Remember, submission to the organization is required of all Jehovah's Witnesses, whether your local elders want to enforce it strictly or not.
Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw
by reniaa 223 Replies latest jw experiences
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B_Deserter
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Tired of the Hypocrisy
I sincerely hope you find whatever it is you are looking for, Kiddo. If it's in the watchtower then so be it. I only ask you to take an honest look at both sides and then vote your heart!
Good luck and happiness.
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BizzyBee
and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that I had expressed i now had.
Please let us know how this goes! Anyone whose life would be improved by studying with Jehovah's Witnesses probably deserves what they get. And I mean that with all kindness and sincerity.
Have a good life.
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yknot
All of us reach closure our own way.....
Remember the JWD site is always open to you .......
See you again when the time is right.......
Best Wishes, Agape
Yknot
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Awakened at Gilead
Renaia,
I have appreciated your posts since your are not afraid to openly mention that you are "Pro-JW" on a mostly anti-JW board.
Regarding the elders not doing anything to you, I will quote the secret elders manual, if I may:
Pp. 99-100:
Under the subheading of "Baptized persons who have not associated for some time"
"If you learn of serious wrongdoing on the part of such a person the matter should be investigated if it poses a threat to the congregation's cleanness and welfare or causes a public scandal"...
"Depending on length of inactivity and other factors suggested above, elders may determine to hold the matter in abeyance. In such a case, a record of the person's questionable conduct should be made for the congregation file so that everything noted might be clarified when the person shows interest in becoming active again" (Emphasis mine)
So they are supposed to address your indiscretions with you if you want to become active again. They will need to reveiw the publisher questions with you. Note:
km11/00p.3QuestionBox******
Question
Box? How can a person who has been inactive for a long time be helped to qualify again as a publisher of the good news?
When an inactive person gives evidence that he has a heartfelt desire to serve Jehovah, this is a cause for rejoicing. (Luke 15:4-6) Likely, the individual allowed opposition or pressures of life to crowd out his personal study, meeting attendance, and participation in the field ministry. How can personal assistance best be given so that he will make spiritual progress?
All of us should take the initiative to reassure this one of our genuine Christian love for him. The elders will be quick to assess his specific spiritual needs. (Jas. 5:14, 15) If the inactivity lasted for a short time, a helping hand from an experienced publisher might be all that is needed to reactivate the individual in the field service. However, if the inactive one has not associated with the congregation for a long time, more help will probably be necessary. To build up faith and appreciation, a personal Bible study in an appropriate publication may be advisable. In that case, the service overseer will arrange for a qualified publisher to conduct the study. (Heb. 5:12-14; see the November 1998 OurKingdomMinistry Question Box.) If you know of someone who needs such help, talk to the service overseer in your congregation.
Before inviting a longtime inactive one to share again in the ministry, it is advisable for two elders to meet with him to see if he qualifies as a Kingdom publisher. They will follow a procedure similar to that used when meeting with new ones who are seeking to qualify as publishers of the good news. (See the November 15, 1988, Watchtower, page 17.) The inactive one should have an earnest desire to share the good news with others. He also needs to meet the basic requirements outlined on pages 98-9 in the OurMinistry book and to be consistent in attending congregation meetings.
Having a good spiritual routine will do much to help the returning one to strengthen and maintain his precious relationship with Jehovah and to keep walking on the road to everlasting life. (Matt. 7:14; Heb. 10:23-25) His putting forth "all earnest effort" and developing Christian qualities that endure will prevent him from ever again becoming "inactive or unfruitful" as a Christian disciple.—2 Pet. 1:5-8.
It's your call. But remember that the elders have every right to pry into your many years of inactivity and see if you qualify. Are you ready to face a JC?
You decide....you have a free mind!
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Honesty
However, if the inactive one has not associated with the congregation for a long time, more help will probably be necessary. To build up faith and appreciation, a personal Bible study in an appropriate publication may be advisable. In that case, the service overseer will arrange for a qualified publisher to conduct the study.
A good dose of Kool-Aid may help overcome your doubts about the organization.
Rational people call a personal 'Bible' study in an appropriate publication reinforcement.
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B_Deserter
and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that I had expressed i now had.
Of course they're willing to address your doubts! They do it all the time. The problem is if their answers aren't satisfying to you, or you don't agree. They're only interested in your doubts if you end up agreeing with them.
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Guest with Questions
reniaa,
In the past few months I haven’t been here much but this one caught my eye. From all the responses I can see that a lot of people are truly concerned for you. Sorry the post ended up so long.
I haven’t followed your thread but did skim over to get a general idea. I hope I don’t come across as stern or judgmental. That’s not my intention. I am also concerned for you, that you make the right choice for yourself and your children. I’m also concerned that because of a couple of opinions on this board that it strenghtens your belief that the org is the truth. My mom went to church with me a couple of months ago and because the music was too loud it confirmed her belief that the org was the truth and she went back to her cong. I do wonder if her cong found out what would happen to her. Would she just have to say that she was influenced by her "worldy" daughter during in a weak period of her life?
At times you sound very inquisitive, wanting to know the truth and then seem you pull away. You sound so confused. You believe the JW to be in the truth yet you go on an Atheist board hoping to find answers. You come to JWD and go into the "world" hoping to find answers.
You have made mistakes like we all do and you are paying the consequences like we all do. Yours are a bit more complicated than others in that you can’t give your children back, not that you would want to. These decisions affect you for life. The world didn’t make you do it. The reality is that you have four children and no spouse. I’m sure you are totally overwhelmed. I get the sense that you want the truth but at the moment it’s a luxury; that you are in survival mode.
You need love and support. For some reason you are not getting it. Where are your parents, the grandparents of your children, the grandparents of your new baby. I’m appalled that the "Christian" boy and his parents have deserted you. Could it be that they too may think that their son stepped out and became involved with a "wordly" person. This is inexcusable. You didn’t become pregnant on your own. Your sister also got pregnant out of wedlock. You both were born into the org yet both got pregnant out of wedlock. I have to wonder if there was some dysfunction within your own family.
I do get tired of the accusations that when you step out into the "world" you step into the den of iniquity. I was told by a PO that I was worldy. He has since been demoted and isn't even an Elder. He doesn't define who I am. Thankfully my mom knows me. I have two children probably not much younger than you. My daughter is a moral Christian girl who has made a vow to abstain until she got married. If she weakens I would still love and support her. My son has not gotten a girl pregnant and if he did we would be there for him and the girl. They are in the "world" (apart from the org) and they know right from wrong.
At the moment you are getting your emotional needs met from your congregation and I’m glad that you are getting some. I worry that it may be short term. This is a religious organization. It is not a social club or babysitter. I worry that when you are stronger that you may realize that it is not the truth and possible shunning from your children when they are older.
It sounds like you have made up your mind but I believe it’s for the wrong reason. It’s not because the Org is the truth. As a Christian, never having been a witness, I don’t come with the baggage that so many have that comes with being an ex-witness. I have other baggage!
Because of my parents I started looking into it many years ago wondering if it was the truth. It is not. Pray to God for guidance, that He will open your eyes, pray for protection from untruth, and help in raising your beautiful children.
A number of religions claim that only they have the truth and a person will be saved only if they remain with them. This is contrary to what Jesus said. The JW org has demoted Jesus. He is not Mediator for the Great Crowd. The Great Crowd does not partake at the Memorial, they don’t celebrate his birth, he seems to morph. into Michael, back to Jesus, then back to Michael again.
Show me in scripture where God chose the JW org. Show me where 144,000 go to heaven and the great crowd has a different hope. Show me that Jesus is Michael. Show me that the JW Org is the New Jerusalem and has replaced the Covenant that God made with Israel. Show me where Jesus is Mediator only between God and the 144,000. Show me where only the anointed can partake at the Memorial and the rest are to watch.
Going door to door:
JW claim that people must go door to door to evangelize. It doesn’t say that in the bible that we must do that. The people came to Jesus to listen to him. What is the success rate among the JW’s doing it this way? My understanding is that it takes a long time to convert someone. Our Alpha group has a very high success rate of people coming to the Lord. We evangelize - just differently.Preach the Gospel at all times. Where necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assisi
You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2 Corinth 3:2-3
The Cross:
Leolaia has covered this. I don't worship the cross. Most likely you don't worship the Watchtower symbol. But how much more important a symbol is the cross over the watchtower symbol. Jesus died for you. He suffered horribly for you. To say that Jesus died on a stake diminishes his suffering, as the cross was much more barbaric. It also never made sense that Jesus would then have been carying the pole that was a permanent fixture in the ground. He carried the cross beam.Covenant with Israel:
At some point I will post more extensively as I promised someone here a quite a while ago.Many churches hold to the replacement theology that the church replaced Israel. They argue that since the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah then God has rejected the Jews. This is untrue. God made four everlasting covenants with the Jews. At the death of Jesus the Gentiles were grafted into that same tree, to be in the same Covenant. God never gives up on us. We give up on Him.Memorial:
I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day, because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood lives in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the manna your fathers ate — and they died. The one who eats this bread will live forever." John 6:53-58Mediator:
I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone, for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men. 1 Tim 2:5Jesus:
Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13:8Truth: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you men had known me, you would have known my Father also; from this moment on you know him and have seen him:" John 14:6-7
some more scripture to ponder: we do good works because we are saved, not to be saved
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit - just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:27
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:4:10
The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 2:20-21
‘And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free’. John 8:32
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flipper
RENIAA - Whatever. Have a good life. Everybody here has told you anything I would say- I have nothing to add
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changeling
If you honestly feel they have the truth and your life would be better if you go back, then by all all means, go for it.
As for the advice you were given here, it was sound. I grew up an elder's daughter and was an elder's wife. The "standard" procedure when people go back is to get them to disclose any "wrongdoing" they may have commited while they were out. This is particullarly true if their actions were known by others in the cong .or the community. Since time has passed and the person shows sigs of repentance for returning, they usually get reproved not DF'd.
By any chance are you living in a different area now then where you were when you were active? That may have a lot to do with the friendly reception you received. Sort of a "don't ask, don't tell", situation.
Don't be surprised if after some time has passed, and you are settled in, you get a "shepharding visit" form a couple of elders asking probing questions. Or you might just get lucky and live "happily ever after".
Follow your instincts and do what's best for you,
changelling