Reasons why i can't worship the God of the bible...

by digderidoo 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  snowbird

  You can't have it both ways with God. It is impossible to desire absolute autonomy, and at the same time desire God to perform certain tasks for a person when they personally do many of the very things they wish God to prevent for THEM.

  This reduces God to little more than a genie in a bottle, with him being our servant, and us being his master.

  Well said.

  Oftentimes, the ones who scream the loudest about God's whereabouts are the ones who want nothing to do with Him.

  Can we spell S-E-L-F-I-S-H?

  Sylvia
• 

  Perry

  Christians do not have a monopoly on morality, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

  Paul

  Not at all Paul. Even without God, man has a sense of right and wrong. Of course, the sociologist will tell you in no uncertain terms that man can be socialized into doing most anything. I agree. But, I would interject that the innateness must be overcome first.

  Christians speak about morality not as if they are total posession of it. They live under conviction of sin, but allow Christ to bear the weigth on the cross. Moral truth doesn't originate with man, but Jesus told us what truth is on the cross. "Forgive them, for they no not what they do."

  However, many of those who live under moral relativism, get their feelings hurt because they feel that any talk of morality, right/wrong is a personal attack on them.... because they are at the center of their own introverted worldview.
• 

  digderidoo

  Not at all Paul. Even with God, man has a sense of right and wrong. Of course, the sociologist will tell you in no uncertain terms that man can be socialized into doing most anything. I agree. But, I would interject that the innateness must be overcome first.

  So according to you then christians you agree, do not have the monopoly on morality, but then why do you go on to say...

  Moral truth doesn't originate with man, but Jesus told us what truth is on the cross.

  and you said...

  This fact is what drives atheists to the brink of insanity in their insistence that good and evil is relative.

  You go on to say...

  because they are at the center of their own introverted worldview.

  Why is an atheist at the the centre of his own introverted world view?

  Paul
• 

  trevor

  Perry you talk a lot of words with absolute authority but in reality add up to nothing more than rhetoric.

  Moral truth doesn't originate with man, but Jesus told us what truth is on the cross. "Forgive them, for they no not what they do."

  Unlike morals, truth is not negotiable. Why did God not apply the truth that you have quoted and forgive Adam and Eve?

  Why did God not apply that truth and forgive the Israelites instead of demanding an eye for an eye and death for something as trivial as kindling a fire on the Sabbath?

  You see there is no consistency in your God’s morals or rules. You talk the talk on behalf of your Biblical God but you fail to walk the walk when facts are introduced.

  To call people who have a more generous world view introverted, is rather rich coming from you. Don’t you ever get tired of all that egotistical noise going on in your head?

  trevor
• 

  Perry

  The notions of right and wrong have been put into man by God. I'm not suggesting that just because man posesses a part of it, that it originated with him.

  The first part of your last post is unclear to what your argument is. Can you restate more clearly?

  Why is an atheist at the the centre of his own introverted world view?

  Because the atheist makes a statement of premise to himself that he cannot possible know to be true, and then based on that false (at least unverifiable) premise proceeds to construct a logic that deposits relative moral truth within himself.

  Of course, the atheist just plays word games with himself. Not only can the relativist atheist not live up to even his own truth, thus requiring the need to move the definition of what is good to new lows to accomodate the reality that he finds himself in, he must also change the reality of what is just his opinion, into the word "truth", as if that simple word change recharacterizes the overall moral character of his "principles".
• 

  Perry

  Unlike morals, truth is not negotiable. Why did God not apply the truth that you have quoted and forgive Adam and Eve?

  Trevor,

  You are confusing justice and mercy here. Justice demands punishment. Mercy has no such requirement, else it wouldn't be mercy...get it?

  I do concede I throw in some rhetoric here and there.

  Edited to Add:

  Perry you talk a lot of words with absolute authority

  Trevor,

  What I am writing about here are FOUNDATIONAL bible doctrines. These are the basics of a religion that we thought we were a part of but were not at all. I never heard any of this stuff at a kingdom hall. I heard very little of it in modern churches.

  People will hear plenty of it in an Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) church. Good 'ole fashioned KJV preaching. Not all of them are the same, nor could I reccommend all of them. But they definitely preach the basics. Try to find one with balance and not too too legalistic.
• 

  Perry

  Atheists seem to have real conceptual problem with "mercy". It's as if they want the predictableness that laws offer. They want to predict when God's mercy will be shown and when it won't be shown.

  This is rather curious since the major thrust of their worldview is moral relativism, and they seem to be quite comfortable with all its unpredictableness.
• 

  Perry

  Satanus,

  I'm curious. You believe in the existence of spirits. Where do you believe they come from. Do you simply believe that evil spirits have a superior argument than God?
• 

  trevor

  You are confusing justice and mercy here. Justice demands punishment. Mercy has no such requirement, else it wouldn't be mercy...get it?

  Perry, you accuse Atheists of playing word games. Justice and mercy are just words.

  If truth is, "Forgive them, for they no not what they do," Then a loving merciful God would always forgive.

  If truth is demanding justice then he would always punish.

  There can only be one true standard. Otherwise you are saying that God can apply a double standard as it suits him to. In that case your claim that, "Forgive them, for they no not what they do," is truth, becomes subjective.

  Truth can never be subjective. It has to be unchangeable as you claim your God is. The Bible demonstrates that this is not the case.

  I am not critical of your belief in a God - just that God. If you are going to lecture us all on morality and truth you need to be consistent and logical. We don’t want you to end up looking foolish.

  trevor
• 

  digderidoo

  Perry, the first line of my post is arguing that although you agree that christians do not have a monopoly on morals, you then go on to argue the exact opposite. What is it? Either Christians are the only one with morals or we are all born with them and know the value of right or wrong without having to look to the bible for our guidance.

  Why is an atheist at the the centre of his own introverted world view?

  Because the atheist makes a statement of premise to himself that he cannot possible know to be true, and then based on that false (at least unverifiable) premise proceeds to construct a logic that deposits relative moral truth within himself.

  Of course, the atheist just plays word games with himself. Not only can the relativist atheist not live up to even his own truth, thus requiring the need to move the definition of what is good to new lows to accomodate the reality that he finds himself in, he must also change the reality of what is just his opinion, into the word "truth", as if that simple word change recharacterizes the overall moral character of his "principles".

  What do you call 'relative' moral truth? Atheists have moral values, again you are arguing that only if you follow the bible can you have morals.

  Paul